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Greetings and introductions.

Greetings and introductions.

From:
The Doctor
Date:
2012-11-06 @ 20:54
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Hi.  I have no idea if this is an automated subscription mechanism or
not, so I'll err on the side of caution and send a real e-mail, in
case a sapient is on the other side of the inbox.

I have an interest in, and am researching peer-to-peer network
technologies for Project Byzantium (linked in my .signature file), a
distribution of Linux for setting up ad-hoc wireless mesh networks
using general purpose computing hardware.  One of the problems we're
trying to solve is finding or engineering distributed applications
which are web-based (so that users of the mesh don't have to install
any software on their smartphones or laptops) to make the mesh useful.
 A colleage on Twitter sent me a link to your website, and I'm
interested in interacting with the community on your mailing list to
learn what I can, and hopefully answer people's questions.

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS (MED)]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"What's in the box?" "Pain."

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Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
piranna@gmail.com
Date:
2012-11-06 @ 21:32
Welcome, and nice project! :-D

Unluckily, in my experiments I have seen WebRTC needs a signaling channel
to do an initial handshake between the peers and didn't be able to found a
good solution yet :-/ But if you can have on your project a little
signaling server (SIP, XMPP or your own one) then you can go with it and
the peers communications being fully serverless :-)

P.S.: brainssss... :-P

Sent from my Android cell phone, please forgive the lack of format on the
text, and my fat thumbs :-P
El 06/11/2012 21:56, "The Doctor" <drwho@virtadpt.net> escribió:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi.  I have no idea if this is an automated subscription mechanism or
> not, so I'll err on the side of caution and send a real e-mail, in
> case a sapient is on the other side of the inbox.
>
> I have an interest in, and am researching peer-to-peer network
> technologies for Project Byzantium (linked in my .signature file), a
> distribution of Linux for setting up ad-hoc wireless mesh networks
> using general purpose computing hardware.  One of the problems we're
> trying to solve is finding or engineering distributed applications
> which are web-based (so that users of the mesh don't have to install
> any software on their smartphones or laptops) to make the mesh useful.
>  A colleage on Twitter sent me a link to your website, and I'm
> interested in interacting with the community on your mailing list to
> learn what I can, and hopefully answer people's questions.
>
> - --
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS (MED)]
> Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/
>
> PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
> WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
>
> "What's in the box?" "Pain."
>
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> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlCZePwACgkQO9j/K4B7F8HOmwCgsxjLu8jVxzmZ7dha4ojgZ36c
> V28AoLDia2aLuGKj68O95BD9Wx/NwOOi
> =iw0k
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
The Doctor
Date:
2012-11-07 @ 21:13
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On 11/06/2012 04:32 PM, piranna@gmail.com wrote:
> Welcome, and nice project! :-D

Thank you. :)

> Unluckily, in my experiments I have seen WebRTC needs a signaling
> channel to do an initial handshake between the peers and didn't be
> able to found a good solution yet :-/ But if you can have on your
> project a little

Define 'signaling channel' - a mechanism by which to locate peers to
bootstrap?

> signaling server (SIP, XMPP or your own one) then you can go with
> it and the peers communications being fully serverless :-)

XMPP would work.  IP multicasting might work (Litter uses it).  We're
using Avahi to good effect.

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS (MED)]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"Here sharky!  Here!  Here, boy!"  --Anthony Bourdain

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Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
mobilevideodate
Date:
2012-11-07 @ 21:19
I like your discussions: What's the best server company to use to make p2p
smooth over 3/4/lte networks?
Curious,
Marcel
On Nov 7, 2012 1:15 PM, "The Doctor" <drwho@virtadpt.net> wrote:

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>
> On 11/06/2012 04:32 PM, piranna@gmail.com wrote:
> > Welcome, and nice project! :-D
>
> Thank you. :)
>
> > Unluckily, in my experiments I have seen WebRTC needs a signaling
> > channel to do an initial handshake between the peers and didn't be
> > able to found a good solution yet :-/ But if you can have on your
> > project a little
>
> Define 'signaling channel' - a mechanism by which to locate peers to
> bootstrap?
>
> > signaling server (SIP, XMPP or your own one) then you can go with
> > it and the peers communications being fully serverless :-)
>
> XMPP would work.  IP multicasting might work (Litter uses it).  We're
> using Avahi to good effect.
>
> - --
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS (MED)]
> Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/
>
> PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
> WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
>
> "Here sharky!  Here!  Here, boy!"  --Anthony Bourdain
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
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> =fi1S
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
piranna@gmail.com
Date:
2012-11-07 @ 21:25
> > Welcome, and nice project! :-D
>
> Thank you. :)
>
> :-)


> > Unluckily, in my experiments I have seen WebRTC needs a signaling
> > channel to do an initial handshake between the peers and didn't be
> > able to found a good solution yet :-/ But if you can have on your
> > project a little
>
> Define 'signaling channel' - a mechanism by which to locate peers to
> bootstrap?
>
> Yes, exactly that. WebRTC and PeerConnections is focused as a media
channel, but you need a signaling channel to do the initial handshake and
send out-of-band data (although WebRTC allow some of this, it's only just
directly related to the transfered audio and video). This is done on
purpose just to simplify the specification and let freedom to the developer
to use what it see it's better, like WebSockets, XHR or pidgeons. The
problem comes when you have some pure distributed webapp like mine, that
having and deploying a central signaling server is a problem per itself,
and didn't be able to find yet a good solution to this... :-(


> > signaling server (SIP, XMPP or your own one) then you can go with
> > it and the peers communications being fully serverless :-)
>
> XMPP would work.  IP multicasting might work (Litter uses it).  We're
> using Avahi to good effect.
>
> In local networks Avahi will be great, and in fact this shows a good
example why the specification doesn't tell anything about a specific
signaling channel :-D Is there something at a global size like
Avahi/Rendezvous/ZeroConf I could be able to use?

- --
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS (MED)]
> Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/
>
> PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
> WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
>
> "Here sharky!  Here!  Here, boy!"  --Anthony Bourdain
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlCazwEACgkQO9j/K4B7F8G8wACgliSLRmfh/5t1n5t/Ft3v5/ug
> 3joAn1fHbqHV6/7/0NchPMor0RoLni2X
> =fi1S
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>



-- 
"Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un monton
de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
– Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
The Doctor
Date:
2012-11-09 @ 18:36
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On 11/07/2012 04:25 PM, piranna@gmail.com wrote:
> Yes, exactly that. WebRTC and PeerConnections is focused as a
> media channel, but you need a signaling channel to do the initial
> handshake and send out-of-band data (although WebRTC allow some of
> this, it's only just directly related to the transfered audio and
> video). This is done on

mDNS would work for that.  Register a service descriptor and the
daemon would broadcast the presence of this service to the local
network periodically.  The daemon on the recieving end could be
configured to run a script that would add an IP address and port to a
database that the application would then periodically poll to see if
it had been updated, and add any new IP:port pairs that appeared.
Conversely, if the app hasn't gotten any updates from that IP:port, it
could remove it from the database.

As for IP multicasting, so long as every instance of the app is on the
same IP multicast address and port, they can periodically blip out
updates that are received by every other node on the local network.
This is how Litter works, and it's stupidly simple and elegant.

Granted, this is probably more specific to my use case, but maybe
someone else will get some ideas from it.

> purpose just to simplify the specification and let freedom to the
> developer to use what it see it's better, like WebSockets, XHR or
> pidgeons. The

It also makes the set of potential use cases much larger.

> problem comes when you have some pure distributed webapp like mine,
> that having and deploying a central signaling server is a problem
> per itself, and didn't be able to find yet a good solution to
> this... :-(

It seems as if setting up such a thing on a local network is pretty
easy, but on global Net is much, much harder.

An idea I've been toying with is kind of oldy-worldy, but might work
for personal use cases.  Given, for the moment, that most of the users
of such a distributed network have separate presences on the Web, what
if an additional feature was added to the website in question?  When
one's client started up it would ping that particular feature and
authenticate itself (I keep envisioning a small cluster of... 50
JavaScript functions.. the output of which is meaningless but the
order in which they are called by the client is important, perhaps
derived from a passphrase entered into the user's client).  If the
pattern received matched the one it was expecting, it would then
temporarily cache the IP address and a port that the client was at for
the moment.  Other clients could then ping that feature of the website
to find out that same information and then contact the client there.

In other words, if you want to know how to hit me up on WebP2P, have
your WebP2P client go to my website to find out.

However, there are privacy implications of such a scheme.  This
implicitly exposes your current IP address, and for people for whom
this is an issue (like Tor users), this effectively outs them.  I
suspect that this isn't the only aspect of such a scheme that requires
more thought.

> In local networks Avahi will be great, and in fact this shows a
> good example why the specification doesn't tell anything about a
> specific signaling channel :-D Is there something at a global size
> like Avahi/Rendezvous/ZeroConf I could be able to use?

If you fire up avahi-discover, you will discover mDNS-registered
services across the global Net, not just your local LAN (specifically,
0pointer.de - I'm behind a firewall at work and just did this).  So,
that said, it might be possible to use mDNS-like discovery on a much
larger scale than just a LAN.

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS (MED)]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

Shazbot!

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Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
piranna@gmail.com
Date:
2012-11-10 @ 23:07
> However, there are privacy implications of such a scheme.  This
> implicitly exposes your current IP address, and for people for whom
> this is an issue (like Tor users), this effectively outs them.  I
> suspect that this isn't the only aspect of such a scheme that requires
> more thought.
>
> SDPs also expose your public IP that I find annoying. I have read about
AnnonSIP proxy but as fas as I know there's no public implementation yet.


>  > In local networks Avahi will be great, and in fact this shows a
> > good example why the specification doesn't tell anything about a
> > specific signaling channel :-D Is there something at a global size
> > like Avahi/Rendezvous/ZeroConf I could be able to use?
>
> If you fire up avahi-discover, you will discover mDNS-registered
> services across the global Net, not just your local LAN (specifically,
> 0pointer.de - I'm behind a firewall at work and just did this).  So,
> that said, it might be possible to use mDNS-like discovery on a much
> larger scale than just a LAN.
>
> I have just launched it and got some sharing folders but only on my local
network, one of them from my parents computer that's currently is switched
of, so maybe Avahi has some kind of cache or something. Anyway, there are
plugins that give JavaScript bindings for Avahi, but the interesting thing
would be to do it in JavaScript and in a portable way. Hopefully maybe one
this this spec I have just found becomes reality, it would be a really
great f*cking bad-ass killer... :-D

http://www.w3.org/TR/discovery-api/

Basicly, it's ZeroConf for JavaScript. Unluckily, it seems will only work
on LANs and not global internet :-(



> - --
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS (MED)]
> Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/
>
> PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
> WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
>
> Shazbot!
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
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> bGsAn1jdF/8mfO+S+NukYluTE1zCkyVt
> =RTbX
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>



-- 
"Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un monton
de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
– Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
Marc
Date:
2012-11-11 @ 01:08
2012/11/11 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:


> Basicly, it's ZeroConf for JavaScript. Unluckily, it seems will only work on
> LANs and not global internet :-(



hello piranna

this just came to my mind, dont know if its might be helpfull for you.


https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_extension

Greetings



-- 
I am looking for  C++ /Qt programmer for an opensource project.
https://twitter.com/macbroadcast

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
The Doctor
Date:
2012-11-14 @ 20:56
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On 11/10/2012 08:08 PM, Marc wrote:

> this just came to my mind, dont know if its might be helpfull for 
> you. https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_extension

Thank you for the link, I will check it out later.  It may come in
handy someday.

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS (MED)]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"The system of teaching is the teaching of the system." --Guy Debord

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Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
piranna@gmail.com
Date:
2012-11-11 @ 01:21
Sound good, but seems similar to the previous one I referenced. In any way
it would be good to collect all of this and put them on the webp2p.org page
for reference :-)

What I'm looking for (and it seems more people too) is a global enabled
signaling system, annonimously if possible, and server-less in a P2P way or
at least without a dedicated server using some existing platform. I can't
be able to believe something so simple and focused there's no solution for
it... :-/


2012/11/11 Marc <marc@let.de>

> 2012/11/11 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:
>
>
> > Basicly, it's ZeroConf for JavaScript. Unluckily, it seems will only
> work on
> > LANs and not global internet :-(
>
>
>
> hello piranna
>
> this just came to my mind, dont know if its might be helpfull for you.
>
>
> https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_extension
>
> Greetings
>
>
>
> --
> I am looking for  C++ /Qt programmer for an opensource project.
> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>



-- 
"Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un monton
de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
– Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
Marc
Date:
2012-11-11 @ 02:19
2012/11/11 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:
> Sound good, but seems similar to the previous one I referenced. In any way
> it would be good to collect all of this and put them on the webp2p.org page
> for reference :-)
>
> What I'm looking for (and it seems more people too) is a global enabled
> signaling system, annonimously if possible, and server-less in a P2P way or
> at least without a dedicated server using some existing platform. I can't be
> able to believe something so simple and focused there's no solution for
> it... :-/

I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P



https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TkAUpUxdfKGr_5Qio2SlZcnBu_sgnZWdoVTZuD_Regs/edit#

good luck for your exam

peace


>
>
> 2012/11/11 Marc <marc@let.de>
>>
>> 2012/11/11 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> > Basicly, it's ZeroConf for JavaScript. Unluckily, it seems will only
>> > work on
>> > LANs and not global internet :-(
>>
>>
>>
>> hello piranna
>>
>> this just came to my mind, dont know if its might be helpfull for you.
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_extension
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> I am looking for  C++ /Qt programmer for an opensource project.
>> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un monton
> de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
> – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux



-- 
C++ /Qt programmer wanted for an interesting opensource project.
https://twitter.com/macbroadcast

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
piranna@gmail.com
Date:
2012-11-11 @ 17:48
> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P
>
> Lol X-D It seems so, Tim Berners-Lee would be proud of me... :-P I don't
know why would be so difficult. I have been trying with SIP and XMPP and
they would work, but there's no public servers that allow anonimous
registration and you need to create an account before that. I would be able
to deploy one, but we come back to the one-point-of-failure problem. And
yes, there are solutions, but no ones in pure JavaScript... :-(


>
>
> 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TkAUpUxdfKGr_5Qio2SlZcnBu_sgnZWdoVTZuD_Regs/edit#
>
> Really interesting document, although very long :-P It needs to be printed
and readed with more attention. Thanks for sharing! :-D


> good luck for your exam
>
> I'll need it... Ironically, it's about networks... :-P


> peace
>
>
> >
> >
> > 2012/11/11 Marc <marc@let.de>
> >>
> >> 2012/11/11 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >>
> >> > Basicly, it's ZeroConf for JavaScript. Unluckily, it seems will only
> >> > work on
> >> > LANs and not global internet :-(
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> hello piranna
> >>
> >> this just came to my mind, dont know if its might be helpfull for you.
> >>
> >>
> >> https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_extension
> >>
> >> Greetings
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> I am looking for  C++ /Qt programmer for an opensource project.
> >> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un
> monton
> > de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
> > – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
>
>
>
> --
> C++ /Qt programmer wanted for an interesting opensource project.
> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>



-- 
"Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un monton
de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
– Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
Colin Kippenberg (colin.kippenberg@gmail.com)
Date:
2012-11-11 @ 19:51
I guess, this replies to my question of webbased p2p music streaming?
> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P


best
colin


Am 11.11.2012 um 18:48 schrieb piranna@gmail.com:

> 
> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P
> 
> Lol X-D It seems so, Tim Berners-Lee would be proud of me... :-P I don't
know why would be so difficult. I have been trying with SIP and XMPP and 
they would work, but there's no public servers that allow anonimous 
registration and you need to create an account before that. I would be 
able to deploy one, but we come back to the one-point-of-failure problem. 
And yes, there are solutions, but no ones in pure JavaScript... :-(
>  
> 
> 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TkAUpUxdfKGr_5Qio2SlZcnBu_sgnZWdoVTZuD_Regs/edit#
> 
> Really interesting document, although very long :-P It needs to be 
printed and readed with more attention. Thanks for sharing! :-D
>  
> good luck for your exam
> 
> I'll need it... Ironically, it's about networks... :-P
>  
> peace
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > 2012/11/11 Marc <marc@let.de>
> >>
> >> 2012/11/11 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >>
> >> > Basicly, it's ZeroConf for JavaScript. Unluckily, it seems will only
> >> > work on
> >> > LANs and not global internet :-(
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> hello piranna
> >>
> >> this just came to my mind, dont know if its might be helpfull for you.
> >>
> >>
> >> https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_extension
> >>
> >> Greetings
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> I am looking for  C++ /Qt programmer for an opensource project.
> >> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un monton
> > de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
> > – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
> 
> 
> 
> --
> C++ /Qt programmer wanted for an interesting opensource project.
> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un 
monton de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo 
Unix."
> – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
piranna@gmail.com
Date:
2012-11-11 @ 20:04
You can do P2P music streaming, but currently you need a signaling channel
to get in touch both peers.


2012/11/11 Colin Kippenberg (colin.kippenberg@gmail.com) <
colin.kippenberg@googlemail.com>

>
> I guess, this replies to my question of webbased p2p music streaming?
>
> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
>> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P
>
>
> best
> colin
>
>
> Am 11.11.2012 um 18:48 schrieb piranna@gmail.com:
>
>
> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
>> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P
>>
>> Lol X-D It seems so, Tim Berners-Lee would be proud of me... :-P I don't
> know why would be so difficult. I have been trying with SIP and XMPP and
> they would work, but there's no public servers that allow anonimous
> registration and you need to create an account before that. I would be able
> to deploy one, but we come back to the one-point-of-failure problem. And
> yes, there are solutions, but no ones in pure JavaScript... :-(
>
>
>>
>>
>> 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TkAUpUxdfKGr_5Qio2SlZcnBu_sgnZWdoVTZuD_Regs/edit#
>>
>> Really interesting document, although very long :-P It needs to be
> printed and readed with more attention. Thanks for sharing! :-D
>
>
>> good luck for your exam
>>
>> I'll need it... Ironically, it's about networks... :-P
>
>
>> peace
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > 2012/11/11 Marc <marc@let.de>
>> >>
>> >> 2012/11/11 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Basicly, it's ZeroConf for JavaScript. Unluckily, it seems will only
>> >> > work on
>> >> > LANs and not global internet :-(
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> hello piranna
>> >>
>> >> this just came to my mind, dont know if its might be helpfull for you.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_extension
>> >>
>> >> Greetings
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> I am looking for  C++ /Qt programmer for an opensource project.
>> >> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un
>> monton
>> > de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
>> > – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> C++ /Qt programmer wanted for an interesting opensource project.
>> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un
> monton de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
> – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
>
>
>


-- 
"Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un monton
de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
– Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
Colin Kippenberg
Date:
2012-11-12 @ 07:57
The signaling chanel would than connect then the demanding Peer with any 
Peer thats online and holds the requested song right?
Thanks
Colin 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet.

Am 11.11.2012 um 21:04 schrieb "piranna@gmail.com" <piranna@gmail.com>:

> You can do P2P music streaming, but currently you need a signaling 
channel to get in touch both peers.
> 
> 
> 2012/11/11 Colin Kippenberg (colin.kippenberg@gmail.com) 
<colin.kippenberg@googlemail.com>
> 
> I guess, this replies to my question of webbased p2p music streaming?
>> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
>> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P
> 
> 
> best
> colin
> 
> 
> Am 11.11.2012 um 18:48 schrieb piranna@gmail.com:
> 
>> 
>> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
>> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P
>> 
>> Lol X-D It seems so, Tim Berners-Lee would be proud of me... :-P I 
don't know why would be so difficult. I have been trying with SIP and XMPP
and they would work, but there's no public servers that allow anonimous 
registration and you need to create an account before that. I would be 
able to deploy one, but we come back to the one-point-of-failure problem. 
And yes, there are solutions, but no ones in pure JavaScript... :-(
>>  
>> 
>> 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TkAUpUxdfKGr_5Qio2SlZcnBu_sgnZWdoVTZuD_Regs/edit#
>> 
>> Really interesting document, although very long :-P It needs to be 
printed and readed with more attention. Thanks for sharing! :-D
>>  
>> good luck for your exam
>> 
>> I'll need it... Ironically, it's about networks... :-P
>>  
>> peace
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> >
>> > 2012/11/11 Marc <marc@let.de>
>> >>
>> >> 2012/11/11 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Basicly, it's ZeroConf for JavaScript. Unluckily, it seems will only
>> >> > work on
>> >> > LANs and not global internet :-(
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> hello piranna
>> >>
>> >> this just came to my mind, dont know if its might be helpfull for you.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_extension
>> >>
>> >> Greetings
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> I am looking for  C++ /Qt programmer for an opensource project.
>> >> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un monton
>> > de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
>> > – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> C++ /Qt programmer wanted for an interesting opensource project.
>> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un 
monton de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo 
Unix."
>> – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un 
monton de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo 
Unix."
> – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
piranna@gmail.com
Date:
2012-11-12 @ 08:46
Exactly, that's it :-) A peer will ask through the signaling channel
(probably a web server through XHR or WebSockets) for a currently connected
peer that has registered that it has the song that you want to ear, and
later this signaling channel will ask for both peers to create a connection
so stream can start :-)

Sent from my Android cell phone, please forgive the lack of format on the
text, and my fat thumbs :-P
El 12/11/2012 08:58, "Colin Kippenberg" <colin.kippenberg@googlemail.com>
escribió:

> The signaling chanel would than connect then the demanding Peer with any
> Peer thats online and holds the requested song right?
> Thanks
> Colin
>
> Von meinem iPhone gesendet.
>
> Am 11.11.2012 um 21:04 schrieb "piranna@gmail.com" <piranna@gmail.com>:
>
> You can do P2P music streaming, but currently you need a signaling channel
> to get in touch both peers.
>
>
> 2012/11/11 Colin Kippenberg (colin.kippenberg@gmail.com) <
> colin.kippenberg@googlemail.com>
>
>>
>> I guess, this replies to my question of webbased p2p music streaming?
>>
>> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
>>> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P
>>
>>
>> best
>> colin
>>
>>
>> Am 11.11.2012 um 18:48 schrieb piranna@gmail.com:
>>
>>
>> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
>>> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P
>>>
>>> Lol X-D It seems so, Tim Berners-Lee would be proud of me... :-P I don't
>> know why would be so difficult. I have been trying with SIP and XMPP and
>> they would work, but there's no public servers that allow anonimous
>> registration and you need to create an account before that. I would be able
>> to deploy one, but we come back to the one-point-of-failure problem. And
>> yes, there are solutions, but no ones in pure JavaScript... :-(
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TkAUpUxdfKGr_5Qio2SlZcnBu_sgnZWdoVTZuD_Regs/edit#
>>>
>>> Really interesting document, although very long :-P It needs to be
>> printed and readed with more attention. Thanks for sharing! :-D
>>
>>
>>> good luck for your exam
>>>
>>> I'll need it... Ironically, it's about networks... :-P
>>
>>
>>> peace
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2012/11/11 Marc <marc@let.de>
>>> >>
>>> >> 2012/11/11 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > Basicly, it's ZeroConf for JavaScript. Unluckily, it seems will only
>>> >> > work on
>>> >> > LANs and not global internet :-(
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> hello piranna
>>> >>
>>> >> this just came to my mind, dont know if its might be helpfull for you.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_extension
>>> >>
>>> >> Greetings
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> I am looking for  C++ /Qt programmer for an opensource project.
>>> >> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un
>>> monton
>>> > de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
>>> > – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> C++ /Qt programmer wanted for an interesting opensource project.
>>> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un
>> monton de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
>> – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un
> monton de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
> – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
>
>

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
Shum
Date:
2012-11-14 @ 13:51
Hey people.

I've just been reading through the last few emails on this list and I have
some thoughts.

> A peer will ask through the signaling channel (probably a web server
through XHR or WebSockets) for a currently connected peer that has
registered that it has the song that you want to ear, and later this
signaling channel will ask for both peers to create a connection so stream
can start :-)

That's basically the same as the Napster model and would probably get shut
down. It would be best to have the server just be a dumb server that
connects clients through to a peer-to-peer network. The client then
searches the p2p for the file they want using kademlia or something.

As for the signalling channel issue. If you have two PeerConnections
between clients A and B and clients B and C:

    A <---> B
    B <---> C

Clients A and C could connect to each other by passing the sdp info through
B. Once a client is connected to a single peer they can connect themselves
through to the rest of the network. They only need to use a web server and
XHR or a WebSocket to bootstrap themselves with the initial peer, but
that's fine because they'll need to visit a web server in order to load the
whole p2p webapp in the first place.

 - Andrew



On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:46 PM, piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>wrote:

> Exactly, that's it :-) A peer will ask through the signaling channel
> (probably a web server through XHR or WebSockets) for a currently connected
> peer that has registered that it has the song that you want to ear, and
> later this signaling channel will ask for both peers to create a connection
> so stream can start :-)
>
> Sent from my Android cell phone, please forgive the lack of format on the
> text, and my fat thumbs :-P
> El 12/11/2012 08:58, "Colin Kippenberg" <colin.kippenberg@googlemail.com>
> escribió:
>
> The signaling chanel would than connect then the demanding Peer with any
>> Peer thats online and holds the requested song right?
>> Thanks
>> Colin
>>
>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet.
>>
>> Am 11.11.2012 um 21:04 schrieb "piranna@gmail.com" <piranna@gmail.com>:
>>
>> You can do P2P music streaming, but currently you need a signaling
>> channel to get in touch both peers.
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/11 Colin Kippenberg (colin.kippenberg@gmail.com) <
>> colin.kippenberg@googlemail.com>
>>
>>>
>>> I guess, this replies to my question of webbased p2p music streaming?
>>>
>>> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
>>>> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P
>>>
>>>
>>> best
>>> colin
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 11.11.2012 um 18:48 schrieb piranna@gmail.com:
>>>
>>>
>>> I was researching a bit , but beside peer2peer sip i found nothing, it
>>>> seems you touched the holy grail of the internet :-P
>>>>
>>>> Lol X-D It seems so, Tim Berners-Lee would be proud of me... :-P I
>>> don't know why would be so difficult. I have been trying with SIP and XMPP
>>> and they would work, but there's no public servers that allow anonimous
>>> registration and you need to create an account before that. I would be able
>>> to deploy one, but we come back to the one-point-of-failure problem. And
>>> yes, there are solutions, but no ones in pure JavaScript... :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TkAUpUxdfKGr_5Qio2SlZcnBu_sgnZWdoVTZuD_Regs/edit#
>>>>
>>>> Really interesting document, although very long :-P It needs to be
>>> printed and readed with more attention. Thanks for sharing! :-D
>>>
>>>
>>>> good luck for your exam
>>>>
>>>> I'll need it... Ironically, it's about networks... :-P
>>>
>>>
>>>> peace
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 2012/11/11 Marc <marc@let.de>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 2012/11/11 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Basicly, it's ZeroConf for JavaScript. Unluckily, it seems will
>>>> only
>>>> >> > work on
>>>> >> > LANs and not global internet :-(
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> hello piranna
>>>> >>
>>>> >> this just came to my mind, dont know if its might be helpfull for
>>>> you.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_extension
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Greetings
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> I am looking for  C++ /Qt programmer for an opensource project.
>>>> >> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un
>>>> monton
>>>> > de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
>>>> > – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> C++ /Qt programmer wanted for an interesting opensource project.
>>>> https://twitter.com/macbroadcast
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un
>>> monton de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
>>> – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un
>> monton de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
>> – Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux
>>
>>

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
piranna@gmail.com
Date:
2012-11-14 @ 16:26
> Hey people.
>
> I've just been reading through the last few emails on this list and I have
> some thoughts.
>
> Hi Andrew, interesting point of view :-) Please let me comment them down.



> > A peer will ask through the signaling channel (probably a web server
> through XHR or WebSockets) for a currently connected peer that has
> registered that it has the song that you want to ear, and later this
> signaling channel will ask for both peers to create a connection so stream
> can start :-)
>
> That's basically the same as the Napster model and would probably get shut
> down.
>

It's true, I just was giving an idea/example about what would we the
function of the signalling channel and why is necesary. Yes, I didn't
remembered it was just the same model of Napster (I was too child, I
started with LimeWire on a Mac... :-P )



> It would be best to have the server just be a dumb server that connects
> clients through to a peer-to-peer network. The client then searches the p2p
> for the file they want using kademlia or something.
>
> Just the architecture ShareIt! has :-)



> As for the signalling channel issue. If you have two PeerConnections
> between clients A and B and clients B and C:
>
>     A <---> B
>     B <---> C
>
> Clients A and C could connect to each other by passing the sdp info
> through B. Once a client is connected to a single peer they can connect
> themselves through to the rest of the network.
>

I was thinking doing it this way since the first moments, but the bigger
problem is that you need to find the first peer just to bootstrap to the
network in any way, and didn't found an breakeable way to do it :-/



> They only need to use a web server and XHR or a WebSocket to bootstrap
> themselves with the initial peer, but that's fine because they'll need to
> visit a web server in order to load the whole p2p webapp in the first place.
>
> That's not correct. In fact, ShareIt! is a pure client-side webapp, and
being just server-less static files I can be able to serve them with a
simple static web server like 'python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8000' or from
DropBox (it can be used as a basic SSL enabled static web server) or as I'm
doing at this moment from 5Apps.com (a platform to serve static client-side
files for webapps). At least for me, there's no server logic except for the
dedicated handshake server (and that's the reason I'm so willingly to drop
it no matters how...).



-- 
"Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un monton
de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
– Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
Marc
Date:
2012-11-15 @ 02:42
> I was thinking doing it this way since the first moments, but the bigger
> problem is that you need to find the first peer just to bootstrap to the
> network in any way, and didn't found an breakeable way to do it :-/
>
>


i was looking around for a solution and i stubled over a a peer 2 peer
conferencing system called gocast.it , its based on a webRTC plugin
which is able to connect peers with a signing server


http://www.gocast.it/srcdocs/class_go_cast_1_1_peer_connection_client.html#details

greetings

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
piranna@gmail.com
Date:
2012-11-15 @ 08:16
Curious concept, a WebRTC plugin... :-) They reference a
PeerconnectionServer class but didn't be able to found it on the docs,
would be interesting to know how it works (although I supose is a custom
protocol...).

Sent from my Android cell phone, please forgive the lack of format on the
text, and my fat thumbs :-P
El 15/11/2012 03:43, "Marc" <marc@let.de> escribió:

> > I was thinking doing it this way since the first moments, but the bigger
> > problem is that you need to find the first peer just to bootstrap to the
> > network in any way, and didn't found an breakeable way to do it :-/
> >
> >
>
>
> i was looking around for a solution and i stubled over a a peer 2 peer
> conferencing system called gocast.it , its based on a webRTC plugin
> which is able to connect peers with a signing server
>
>
>
> 
http://www.gocast.it/srcdocs/class_go_cast_1_1_peer_connection_client.html#details
>
> greetings
>

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
Marc
Date:
2012-11-15 @ 09:24
2012/11/15 piranna@gmail.com <piranna@gmail.com>:
> Curious concept, a WebRTC plugin... :-) They reference a
> PeerconnectionServer class but didn't be able to found it on the docs, would
> be interesting to know how it works (although I supose is a custom
> protocol...).


its documented here:


http://dev.w3.org/2011/webrtc/editor/webrtc.html#peer-to-peer-connections

i remember libjingle is a jabber  extension:


https://code.google.com/p/libjingle/source/browse/trunk/talk/app/webrtc/peerconnection.h


greetings


>
> Sent from my Android cell phone, please forgive the lack of format on the
> text, and my fat thumbs :-P
>
> El 15/11/2012 03:43, "Marc" <marc@let.de> escribió:
>
>> > I was thinking doing it this way since the first moments, but the bigger
>> > problem is that you need to find the first peer just to bootstrap to the
>> > network in any way, and didn't found an breakeable way to do it :-/
>> >

>> 
http://www.gocast.it/srcdocs/class_go_cast_1_1_peer_connection_client.html#details
>>
>> greetings

Re: [webp2p] Greetings and introductions.

From:
piranna@gmail.com
Date:
2012-11-15 @ 09:47
> its documented here:
>
>
> http://dev.w3.org/2011/webrtc/editor/webrtc.html#peer-to-peer-connections
>
> i remember libjingle is a jabber  extension:
>
>
> 
https://code.google.com/p/libjingle/source/browse/trunk/talk/app/webrtc/peerconnection.h
>

I still don't see the references, are you talking about the ICE servers?
Can they be used for signaling? (I've never used them...)


-- 
"Si quieres viajar alrededor del mundo y ser invitado a hablar en un monton
de sitios diferentes, simplemente escribe un sistema operativo Unix."
– Linus Tordvals, creador del sistema operativo Linux