Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI frameworks? About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all together if that makes a difference. So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI frameworks? Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at this stage).. -- M.
FYI, I think you'll find that Sencha Touch doesn't want to play nicely with backbone (or any other similar MV* framework for that matter) as it prescribes its own. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Marcin Szczepanski <marcins@gmail.com>wrote: > Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI > frameworks? > > About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but > they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, > so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the > "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will > look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. > > So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha > Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all > together if that makes a difference. > > So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI > frameworks? > > Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at > this stage).. > > -- > M. >
I've created a prototype app with zepto, backbone.js and phonegap. Seems to work fine as far as I can tell. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Michael McGlynn <micmcg@gmail.com> wrote: > FYI, I think you'll find that Sencha Touch doesn't want to play nicely > with backbone (or any other similar MV* framework for that matter) as it > prescribes its own. > > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Marcin Szczepanski <marcins@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI >> frameworks? >> >> About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but >> they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, >> so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the >> "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will >> look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. >> >> So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha >> Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all >> together if that makes a difference. >> >> So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI >> frameworks? >> >> Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at >> this stage).. >> >> -- >> M. >> > >
We're building a soon to be released app on Spine mobile. We tried Sencha, JQTouch, jquery mobile and one other that escapes me. Couldn't recommend anything but Spine. Sent from my iPhone On 22/02/2012, at 3:38 PM, Michael McGlynn <micmcg@gmail.com> wrote: > FYI, I think you'll find that Sencha Touch doesn't want to play nicely with backbone (or any other similar MV* framework for that matter) as it prescribes its own. > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Marcin Szczepanski <marcins@gmail.com> wrote: > Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI > frameworks? > > About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but > they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, > so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the > "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will > look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. > > So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha > Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all > together if that makes a difference. > > So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI frameworks? > > Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at > this stage).. > > -- > M. >
Cool, thanks, I'll check out Spline.. I only just heard of it recently (but I think that was you with a job posting a few days ago!) On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Jayphen <jayphen@wearebrandnew.com> wrote: > We're building a soon to be released app on Spine mobile. We tried Sencha, > JQTouch, jquery mobile and one other that escapes me. Couldn't recommend > anything but Spine. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 22/02/2012, at 3:38 PM, Michael McGlynn <micmcg@gmail.com> wrote: > > FYI, I think you'll find that Sencha Touch doesn't want to play nicely with > backbone (or any other similar MV* framework for that matter) as it > prescribes its own. > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Marcin Szczepanski <marcins@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI >> frameworks? >> >> About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but >> they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, >> so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the >> "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will >> look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. >> >> So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha >> Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all >> together if that makes a difference. >> >> So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI >> frameworks? >> >> Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at >> this stage).. >> >> -- >> M. > > -- M.
My final little bit of advice would be to try and sell the client on only an iOS or Android app to start with and then depending on success do another quote for the other. Then do native development. It will give a significantly more polished result and will open up a world of possibilities that HTML5 based dev doesn't. - Ben On Wednesday, 22 February 2012 at 4:07 PM, Marcin Szczepanski wrote: > Cool, thanks, I'll check out Spline.. I only just heard of it recently > (but I think that was you with a job posting a few days ago!) > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Jayphen <jayphen@wearebrandnew.com (mailto:jayphen@wearebrandnew.com)> wrote: > > We're building a soon to be released app on Spine mobile. We tried Sencha, > > JQTouch, jquery mobile and one other that escapes me. Couldn't recommend > > anything but Spine. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 22/02/2012, at 3:38 PM, Michael McGlynn <micmcg@gmail.com (mailto:micmcg@gmail.com)> wrote: > > > > FYI, I think you'll find that Sencha Touch doesn't want to play nicely with > > backbone (or any other similar MV* framework for that matter) as it > > prescribes its own. > > > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Marcin Szczepanski <marcins@gmail.com (mailto:marcins@gmail.com)> > > wrote: > > > > > > Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI > > > frameworks? > > > > > > About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but > > > they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, > > > so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the > > > "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will > > > look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. > > > > > > So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha > > > Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all > > > together if that makes a difference. > > > > > > So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI > > > frameworks? > > > > > > Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at > > > this stage).. > > > > > > -- > > > M. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > M. > >
Kendo UI and PhoneGap play together nicely. Ping me (@JohnBristowe) if you have questions about Kendo UI. Disclaimer: I'm on the Kendo UI team. -- John On 22/02/12 3:34 PM, "Marcin Szczepanski" <marcins@gmail.com> wrote: >Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI >frameworks? > >About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but >they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, >so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the >"uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will >look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. > >So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha >Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all >together if that makes a difference. > >So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI >frameworks? > >Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at >this stage).. > >-- >M.
I'd recommend doing some significant trawling through the PhoneGap documentation ahead of time to confirm that you can do everything within scope. Any sort of native stuff has completely different support across each device (funnily enough). Also beware that social integration (esp Facebook) is a bit strange because you can't use the native widgets and the JS-Style auth is hugely broken (due to iframe stuff) under PhoneGap. You should definitely make sure you have multiple android devices to test with as they all seem to do things quite a bit differently (particularly I ran into issues with multimedia resources). They can also be _incredibly_ slow running phonegap apps, as they don't seem to have nearly as much optimisation as the iPhone. This is particularly frustrating in the emulator (my app crashed it). As for framework. I used Zepto (http://zeptojs.com/) + CoffeeScript and wrote my own routing engine + view + controller stuff. This worked quite well for me as I didn't need any sort of complex Modelling or Model relationships. Also, I'd recommend not nuking all touch events like is suggested and just accept that pulling down the screen will reveal a grey area at the top. Nuking touch events got hugely frustrating as I had to re-implement things like scrolling. - Ben On Wednesday, 22 February 2012 at 3:34 PM, Marcin Szczepanski wrote: > Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI > frameworks? > > About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but > they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, > so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the > "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will > look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. > > So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha > Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all > together if that makes a difference. > > So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI frameworks? > > Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at > this stage).. > > -- > M. > >
Thanks for that. Yeah, we're definitely including a big chunk of time for cross-device testing. Hopefully with some responsive design type things in the CSS we'll be able to cover the slight variances in screen size, only real testing is going to reveal any performance / device specific quirks though. As far as required features, this is a relatively straightforward app - the sort of thing if I was doing as native iOS would just be a handful of navigation controllers, some styled but regular UI like tableviews, some data entry, a few custom controls and a Core Data store. No native features like accelerometers, cameras, etc. Also have a chunk of time allocated at the start of the project for some R&D, so hopefully I'll be able to identify any major gotchas then. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Ben Taylor <taybenlor@gmail.com> wrote: > I'd recommend doing some significant trawling through the PhoneGap > documentation ahead of time to confirm that you can do everything within > scope. Any sort of native stuff has completely different support across each > device (funnily enough). Also beware that social integration (esp Facebook) > is a bit strange because you can't use the native widgets and the JS-Style > auth is hugely broken (due to iframe stuff) under PhoneGap. > > You should definitely make sure you have multiple android devices to test > with as they all seem to do things quite a bit differently (particularly I > ran into issues with multimedia resources). They can also be _incredibly_ > slow running phonegap apps, as they don't seem to have nearly as much > optimisation as the iPhone. This is particularly frustrating in the emula > tor (my app crashed it). > > As for framework. I used Zepto + CoffeeScript and wrote my own routing > engine + view + controller stuff. This worked quite well for me as I didn't > need any sort of complex Modelling or Model relationships. > > Also, I'd recommend not nuking all touch events like is suggested and just > accept that pulling down the screen will reveal a grey area at the top. > Nuking touch events got hugely frustrating as I had to re-implement things > like scrolling. > > - Ben > > On Wednesday, 22 February 2012 at 3:34 PM, Marcin Szczepanski wrote: > > Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI > frameworks? > > About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but > they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, > so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the > "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will > look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. > > So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha > Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all > together if that makes a difference. > > So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI > frameworks? > > Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at > this stage).. > -- > M. > > -- M.
To echo Ben Taylor's point, the webkit that gets used in embedded webviews, like PhoneGap applications, is a few builds behind what gets used in the actual Android browser. It's not a big problem, but bear it in mind and don't assume that they're exactly the same. I haven't used Titanium or others, but I have used PhoneGap and was very happy with it. The big selling point for me was PhoneGap Build. You just push to a git remote and within a few minutes The Cloud has built a version of your application on every architecture. All of them. Just like that. You didn't even need to gnaw off your own hand while trying to get the Android SDK happening or download a terabyte of Xcode. Finally, you get to have both a shiny native-ish application and a kicking rad webapp! And it probably already has an API that will be trivial to expose! You'll get to feel all smug next time someone rails against the closed app store ecosystem stifling the open web. *--* *David Banham CTO Pinion Tech Pty Ltd. * * * *M: +61 438 658 502* *AU:* +61 2 8212 5738 *US:* +1 8882 699 828 *UK:* +44 8081 890 418 *F:* +61 2 9666 8906 *W: *http://pinion.gg On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Marcin Szczepanski <marcins@gmail.com>wrote: > Thanks for that. > > Yeah, we're definitely including a big chunk of time for cross-device > testing. Hopefully with some responsive design type things in the CSS > we'll be able to cover the slight variances in screen size, only real > testing is going to reveal any performance / device specific quirks > though. > > As far as required features, this is a relatively straightforward app > - the sort of thing if I was doing as native iOS would just be a > handful of navigation controllers, some styled but regular UI like > tableviews, some data entry, a few custom controls and a Core Data > store. No native features like accelerometers, cameras, etc. > > Also have a chunk of time allocated at the start of the project for > some R&D, so hopefully I'll be able to identify any major gotchas > then. > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Ben Taylor <taybenlor@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'd recommend doing some significant trawling through the PhoneGap > > documentation ahead of time to confirm that you can do everything within > > scope. Any sort of native stuff has completely different support across > each > > device (funnily enough). Also beware that social integration (esp > Facebook) > > is a bit strange because you can't use the native widgets and the > JS-Style > > auth is hugely broken (due to iframe stuff) under PhoneGap. > > > > You should definitely make sure you have multiple android devices to test > > with as they all seem to do things quite a bit differently (particularly > I > > ran into issues with multimedia resources). They can also be _incredibly_ > > slow running phonegap apps, as they don't seem to have nearly as much > > optimisation as the iPhone. This is particularly frustrating in the emula > > tor (my app crashed it). > > > > As for framework. I used Zepto + CoffeeScript and wrote my own routing > > engine + view + controller stuff. This worked quite well for me as I > didn't > > need any sort of complex Modelling or Model relationships. > > > > Also, I'd recommend not nuking all touch events like is suggested and > just > > accept that pulling down the screen will reveal a grey area at the top. > > Nuking touch events got hugely frustrating as I had to re-implement > things > > like scrolling. > > > > - Ben > > > > On Wednesday, 22 February 2012 at 3:34 PM, Marcin Szczepanski wrote: > > > > Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI > > frameworks? > > > > About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but > > they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, > > so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the > > "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will > > look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. > > > > So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha > > Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all > > together if that makes a difference. > > > > So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI > > frameworks? > > > > Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at > > this stage).. > > -- > > M. > > > > > > > > -- > M. >
Hey Marcin, really depends on what type of app you are looking at building but did you give Titanium Appcelerator a look? On 22/02/2012, at 3:34 PM, Marcin Szczepanski wrote: > Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI > frameworks? > > About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but > they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, > so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the > "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will > look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. > > So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha > Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all > together if that makes a difference. > > So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI frameworks? > > Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at > this stage).. > > -- > M.
Maybe it's just bias, but I keep hearing bad stories with Titanium. Because of the way it works testing is harder and there's quirks that mean you potentially end up wasting more time than just building 2 native apps (assuming iOS & Android as targets) If I'm going to go non-native, I think I'll be more comfortable working with "standards" based development. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Brice Lechatellier <brice@lechatellier.com> wrote: > Hey Marcin, really depends on what type of app you are looking at building but did you give Titanium Appcelerator a look? > > On 22/02/2012, at 3:34 PM, Marcin Szczepanski wrote: > >> Anyone got any experiences with PhoneGap and the various Javascript UI >> frameworks? >> >> About to build an app for a client - would have been iOS native but >> they want Android as well and don't have the budget to do both native, >> so this is the compromise. Don't have designs yet, but to avoid the >> "uncanny valley" feel of a JS app that tries to look native it will >> look a bit more generic, but with a slant towards the iOS controls. >> >> So far on my list to have a good look at are: jQuery Mobile, Sencha >> Touch and Kendo UI. I plan on using backbone.js to hang it all >> together if that makes a difference. >> >> So any war stories, recommendations, etc for the various mobile UI frameworks? >> >> Maybe there's a talk in it when it's done! (due in 3 months or so at >> this stage).. >> >> -- >> M. > -- M.