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Brief and not so brief

Brief and not so brief

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2014-01-22 @ 08:13
Hi all,

   I'll try to be brief. No, really, I'll try. I've got a Shoes-3.2b1 
for Windows that folks can test.  Read all about it at 
http://mvmanila.com/2014/01/21/shoes-3-2b1-gtk2-for-windows.

== begin not-so-brief section ==

One of my goals for this variant of Shoes that I call 'Federales or 3.2' 
is to handle gems better if the user already has a gem library.  That's 
likely to be the case for Linux folk since they have to install Ruby 
just to install and build Shoes from source. For those folks, Federales 
will use those gems.  If you've got a bunch of Ruby 2.1 gems then you 
can't expect Federales (3.2 - ruby 1.9.3) to be happy with them.  Nor 
will it be happy with Ruby 1.8.7 gems hanging out in "~/.shoes/gems+". 
Ruby developers know how to sort that out but not all Shoes folks are 
Linux or developers.

The consequence of freedom from the sandbox is that the sandbox is 
broken. The gem handling code in Shoes is old and clunky and it fails 
way too late if the user doesn't have the needed gem building/compiling 
capabilities. In my scheme, gem handling (add, remove, compile if you 
can) is moved out of Shoes into a separate program which I've called 
Cobbler.  Still with me?

Cobbler would be a GUI manager of gems. The only special thing about it 
is that it also knows about Shoes gems as well as gems in rvm and/or 
system installed rubies.  It wouldn't be fun if Cobbler wasn't written 
in Shoes but it doesn't have to be. It could be written in Federales 
Shoes or Green Shoes or Shoes4  or wxruby- anything that can use the API 
of the built in gem code in Ruby 1.9.3+. Pure Ruby/Shoes, no nasty C 
involved.

Anyone interested in working on the gem manager I call Cobbler?  I'm not 
that good of a shoes/ruby programmer. I know enough to scope it out to 
be 'not-as-trivial-as-you-first-think'. When I say 'you' I include 'me'. 
I've got a butt load of low level details to work on with Shoe Federales 
(3.2) before I'm happy with it so I could really use a Shoes programmer 
that wants to tackle an 'interesting' problem. Don't think of it as a 
Shoes app. It's a graphical gem manager. Anyone up for the challenge?

--Cecil

Re: [shoes] Brief and not so brief

From:
Sebastjan Hribar
Date:
2014-01-22 @ 12:58
Hi Cecil,

I've just installed and tested the Federales and it runs on my Win7 laptop.
It did crash once when idle, but then I successfuly ran one of my simple
green shoes applications with some gui discrepacies of course since it was
still written for green shoes.

If I'll have the time I'll test it further.

Kind regards,
seba


2014/1/22 Cecil Coupe <ccoupe@cableone.net>

> Hi all,
>
>    I'll try to be brief. No, really, I'll try. I've got a Shoes-3.2b1
> for Windows that folks can test.  Read all about it at
> http://mvmanila.com/2014/01/21/shoes-3-2b1-gtk2-for-windows.
>
> == begin not-so-brief section ==
>
> One of my goals for this variant of Shoes that I call 'Federales or 3.2'
> is to handle gems better if the user already has a gem library.  That's
> likely to be the case for Linux folk since they have to install Ruby
> just to install and build Shoes from source. For those folks, Federales
> will use those gems.  If you've got a bunch of Ruby 2.1 gems then you
> can't expect Federales (3.2 - ruby 1.9.3) to be happy with them.  Nor
> will it be happy with Ruby 1.8.7 gems hanging out in "~/.shoes/gems+".
> Ruby developers know how to sort that out but not all Shoes folks are
> Linux or developers.
>
> The consequence of freedom from the sandbox is that the sandbox is
> broken. The gem handling code in Shoes is old and clunky and it fails
> way too late if the user doesn't have the needed gem building/compiling
> capabilities. In my scheme, gem handling (add, remove, compile if you
> can) is moved out of Shoes into a separate program which I've called
> Cobbler.  Still with me?
>
> Cobbler would be a GUI manager of gems. The only special thing about it
> is that it also knows about Shoes gems as well as gems in rvm and/or
> system installed rubies.  It wouldn't be fun if Cobbler wasn't written
> in Shoes but it doesn't have to be. It could be written in Federales
> Shoes or Green Shoes or Shoes4  or wxruby- anything that can use the API
> of the built in gem code in Ruby 1.9.3+. Pure Ruby/Shoes, no nasty C
> involved.
>
> Anyone interested in working on the gem manager I call Cobbler?  I'm not
> that good of a shoes/ruby programmer. I know enough to scope it out to
> be 'not-as-trivial-as-you-first-think'. When I say 'you' I include 'me'.
> I've got a butt load of low level details to work on with Shoe Federales
> (3.2) before I'm happy with it so I could really use a Shoes programmer
> that wants to tackle an 'interesting' problem. Don't think of it as a
> Shoes app. It's a graphical gem manager. Anyone up for the challenge?
>
> --Cecil
>
>

Re: [shoes] Brief and not so brief

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2014-01-23 @ 03:03
Seba,

   Thanks for testing it. I also noticed a crash when after starting 
Shoes I then started Firefox. And then nothing bad happened on several 
more attempts.  That's the kind of thread problems I was worried about 
so your test confirmed I should worry about.   FWIW, The Wine emulator 
on Linux absolutely hangs 100% of the time, trying to run it. On the 
bright side, Wine gives me error messages that suggest where the problem 
might be and If I'm correct it's not going to be easy to fix.

--Cecil

On 01/22/2014 05:58 AM, Sebastjan Hribar wrote:
> Hi Cecil,
>
> I've just installed and tested the Federales and it runs on my Win7 
> laptop. It did crash once when idle, but then I successfuly ran one of 
> my simple green shoes applications with some gui discrepacies of 
> course since it was still written for green shoes.
>
> If I'll have the time I'll test it further.
>
> Kind regards,
> seba
>
>
> 2014/1/22 Cecil Coupe <ccoupe@cableone.net <mailto:ccoupe@cableone.net>>
>
>     Hi all,
>
>        I'll try to be brief. No, really, I'll try. I've got a Shoes-3.2b1
>     for Windows that folks can test.  Read all about it at
>     http://mvmanila.com/2014/01/21/shoes-3-2b1-gtk2-for-windows.
>
>     == begin not-so-brief section ==
>
>     One of my goals for this variant of Shoes that I call 'Federales
>     or 3.2'
>     is to handle gems better if the user already has a gem library.
>      That's
>     likely to be the case for Linux folk since they have to install Ruby
>     just to install and build Shoes from source. For those folks,
>     Federales
>     will use those gems.  If you've got a bunch of Ruby 2.1 gems then you
>     can't expect Federales (3.2 - ruby 1.9.3) to be happy with them.  Nor
>     will it be happy with Ruby 1.8.7 gems hanging out in "~/.shoes/gems+".
>     Ruby developers know how to sort that out but not all Shoes folks are
>     Linux or developers.
>
>     The consequence of freedom from the sandbox is that the sandbox is
>     broken. The gem handling code in Shoes is old and clunky and it fails
>     way too late if the user doesn't have the needed gem
>     building/compiling
>     capabilities. In my scheme, gem handling (add, remove, compile if you
>     can) is moved out of Shoes into a separate program which I've called
>     Cobbler.  Still with me?
>
>     Cobbler would be a GUI manager of gems. The only special thing
>     about it
>     is that it also knows about Shoes gems as well as gems in rvm and/or
>     system installed rubies.  It wouldn't be fun if Cobbler wasn't written
>     in Shoes but it doesn't have to be. It could be written in Federales
>     Shoes or Green Shoes or Shoes4  or wxruby- anything that can use
>     the API
>     of the built in gem code in Ruby 1.9.3+. Pure Ruby/Shoes, no nasty C
>     involved.
>
>     Anyone interested in working on the gem manager I call Cobbler?
>      I'm not
>     that good of a shoes/ruby programmer. I know enough to scope it out to
>     be 'not-as-trivial-as-you-first-think'. When I say 'you' I include
>     'me'.
>     I've got a butt load of low level details to work on with Shoe
>     Federales
>     (3.2) before I'm happy with it so I could really use a Shoes
>     programmer
>     that wants to tackle an 'interesting' problem. Don't think of it as a
>     Shoes app. It's a graphical gem manager. Anyone up for the challenge?
>
>     --Cecil
>
>