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Updating Red Shoes - Request for help. Wordy. Long.

Updating Red Shoes - Request for help. Wordy. Long.

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2013-12-19 @ 09:45
Hi All,

   I mentioned on the monthly video call that I was  updating Red Shoes 
to play nice with current Linux versions. That turned out be harder than 
I expected and I'm no where near where I want it to be but I've found & 
fixed some very annoying bugs from the Ruby 1.9.1 conversion way back 
when  _why departed.  I know why you can't download a binary Shoes for 
linux and expect it to work. You still can't (yet).  I know why the 
terminal gets all those Constant overwrite messages.  Those errors are 
mostly harmless but they bothered me because it wasn't clean and 
sometimes, mostly harmless isn't.

I created a new release name, 'Federales'  and there are two versions of 
that. Loose Shoes and Tight Shoes. Tight Shoes is more like the current 
Red Shoes - very tightly controlled and it is no where near being 
finished. Loose Shoes is for folks that are willing to build from 
source. It doesn't include its own copy of Ruby - it uses what you have 
(rvm recommended). It uses gems installed by you in your Ruby and not 
the Shoes sandboxed gems.  Want to use serialport? 'gem install 
serialport' and then start Shoes.  If you don't have all the 
dependencies, it won't link and you'll have to apt-get or yum them.

It works on my Ubuntu 13.10 64 bit and on my raspberry pi (raspbian - if 
you install rvm and build ruby-1.9.3 on the pi and install gtk+2.0-dev 
and curl-dev and some other packages). In fact you have to install all 
that on Ubuntu and Debian Wheezy and you have to install gtk2 dev.  
That's where I could really use some help. Gtk+-3.0 is what all the 
Linux use nowdays. If you set the obvious constant in make/linux/env.rb 
it will compile with Gtk3 and it mostly works. Mostly unless you run 
samples/simple-menu or simple-accordion.rb. I could really use some help 
with the GTK3 conversion - its only three functions that interact.

You could also test if the default build (Loose Shoes) works for your 
Linux.  Github and I lost our way long ago, so you have to download it 
from http://www.mvmanila.com/public/shoes3.2.tar.gz

--Cecil

--- futures ---
if you poke around the downloaded files (hint: 'rake -T') you can see 
where I'm heading with federales and cross compiling. If you wonder why 
I chose Federales or the icon I'm using for it then you've missed this 
bit of popular song writing: Pancho and Lefty. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd41cVwl9FY "all the federales say, they 
could have had him any day. But they him let slip away, out of kindness 
I suppose"

Oh I almost forgot.The reason for all the errors? Shoes didn't have the 
normal ruby file structure and when 1.9.3 is initialized it looks for 
rubygems.rb (and rbconfig.rb) well before the first line of shoes.rb 
runs or cache.rb attempts to rewrite history.  Much hilarity occurs if 
you get two rbconfig.rb from two different paths or rubygems.rb on two 
different load paths or two different paths for the utf encoders.  So I 
changed Shoes to have a normal ruby directory structure.

Did I mention the Gtk3 conversion and I could use some help? Without 
Gtk3, red shoes won't be going anywhere. In shoes/native/gtk.c is _why's 
original code and my conversion to Gtk3 with appropriate #ifdefs.  Even 
if you don't know Gtk2 or Gtk3 you might be able to hint me on what I 
should do. Maybe I can't see the obvious when I'm in the trees? Been 
there before.

Re: [shoes] Updating Red Shoes - Request for help. Wordy. Long.

From:
Arne Brasseur
Date:
2013-12-20 @ 12:45
Hi Cecil,

Just wanted to say I think it's very laudable what you're doing. It would
be great if the original Shoes code base didn't have to die from neglect
and bitrot. It's a hairy project, more than one person (nearly) burned out
on it. But it seems you know what you're doing. Most Shoesers are moving on
and working hard on Shoes 4, but it's a diverse world. I'm sure there's a
place for Vintage Shoes should it become more maintainable again.

Looking forward to trying it out. Separating Shoes from its
embedded/wrapping Ruby seems like a great first step to increasing its
maintainability.

I understand you're not a fan of Github, I read on your blog you want to
avoid vendor lock-in, and right you are. Maybe you could write a blog post
with download/build instructions and a link to the tarball, to add some
visibility to your efforts?

Cheers, good stuff!

Arne



On 19 December 2013 06:45, Cecil Coupe <ccoupe@cableone.net> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>    I mentioned on the monthly video call that I was  updating Red Shoes
> to play nice with current Linux versions. That turned out be harder than
> I expected and I'm no where near where I want it to be but I've found &
> fixed some very annoying bugs from the Ruby 1.9.1 conversion way back
> when  _why departed.  I know why you can't download a binary Shoes for
> linux and expect it to work. You still can't (yet).  I know why the
> terminal gets all those Constant overwrite messages.  Those errors are
> mostly harmless but they bothered me because it wasn't clean and
> sometimes, mostly harmless isn't.
>
> I created a new release name, 'Federales'  and there are two versions of
> that. Loose Shoes and Tight Shoes. Tight Shoes is more like the current
> Red Shoes - very tightly controlled and it is no where near being
> finished. Loose Shoes is for folks that are willing to build from
> source. It doesn't include its own copy of Ruby - it uses what you have
> (rvm recommended). It uses gems installed by you in your Ruby and not
> the Shoes sandboxed gems.  Want to use serialport? 'gem install
> serialport' and then start Shoes.  If you don't have all the
> dependencies, it won't link and you'll have to apt-get or yum them.
>
> It works on my Ubuntu 13.10 64 bit and on my raspberry pi (raspbian - if
> you install rvm and build ruby-1.9.3 on the pi and install gtk+2.0-dev
> and curl-dev and some other packages). In fact you have to install all
> that on Ubuntu and Debian Wheezy and you have to install gtk2 dev.
> That's where I could really use some help. Gtk+-3.0 is what all the
> Linux use nowdays. If you set the obvious constant in make/linux/env.rb
> it will compile with Gtk3 and it mostly works. Mostly unless you run
> samples/simple-menu or simple-accordion.rb. I could really use some help
> with the GTK3 conversion - its only three functions that interact.
>
> You could also test if the default build (Loose Shoes) works for your
> Linux.  Github and I lost our way long ago, so you have to download it
> from http://www.mvmanila.com/public/shoes3.2.tar.gz
>
> --Cecil
>
> --- futures ---
> if you poke around the downloaded files (hint: 'rake -T') you can see
> where I'm heading with federales and cross compiling. If you wonder why
> I chose Federales or the icon I'm using for it then you've missed this
> bit of popular song writing: Pancho and Lefty.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd41cVwl9FY "all the federales say, they
> could have had him any day. But they him let slip away, out of kindness
> I suppose"
>
> Oh I almost forgot.The reason for all the errors? Shoes didn't have the
> normal ruby file structure and when 1.9.3 is initialized it looks for
> rubygems.rb (and rbconfig.rb) well before the first line of shoes.rb
> runs or cache.rb attempts to rewrite history.  Much hilarity occurs if
> you get two rbconfig.rb from two different paths or rubygems.rb on two
> different load paths or two different paths for the utf encoders.  So I
> changed Shoes to have a normal ruby directory structure.
>
> Did I mention the Gtk3 conversion and I could use some help? Without
> Gtk3, red shoes won't be going anywhere. In shoes/native/gtk.c is _why's
> original code and my conversion to Gtk3 with appropriate #ifdefs.  Even
> if you don't know Gtk2 or Gtk3 you might be able to hint me on what I
> should do. Maybe I can't see the obvious when I'm in the trees? Been
> there before.
>

Re: [shoes] Updating Red Shoes

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2013-12-21 @ 06:22
As I told the folks on the hangout, this version of Shoes is not 
competition to Shoes 4.  I have zero  desires to slow that effort down. 
I'm not adding features to match up with Shoes 4 or resurrect the 
mystical packager.

At this point in time, there is no website for this effort. It's not 
ready for general use.  It may never be ready enough so I'm not 
promoting it. I don't like over-promising and under-delivering and since 
I'm not competing with anyone or anything, I don't need to do either ;^) 
If the source tar ball is better than what's on the shoes website then 
I'm confident that the webmaster will copy it or link to it when the 
time is right.

Build instructions? untar, cd, rake. Just like the current Linux Shoes3 
source.

When I say that github and I are not friends, I mean that *I* get 
confused by 'git'. It's my personal failing. Origin/Master/upstream? It 
makes sense to me for 30 minutes and then I have to re-read it again two 
days later.  I've had a github site (fork of Shoes3) for a long time but 
due to disk drive deaths and system changes my directory for Shoes3.2 
doesn't have the magic .dot files for github.

I know some folks don't consider a project "real" until there is a 
convenient github or sourceforge site and a project home page.  I 
understand that point of view. 'Getting right with git' is on my ToDo 
list but it's way down on the list.

Thanks to all for the feedback,
--Cecil

On 12/20/2013 05:45 AM, Arne Brasseur wrote:
> Hi Cecil,
>
> Just wanted to say I think it's very laudable what you're doing. It 
> would be great if the original Shoes code base didn't have to die from 
> neglect and bitrot. It's a hairy project, more than one person 
> (nearly) burned out on it. But it seems you know what you're doing. 
> Most Shoesers are moving on and working hard on Shoes 4, but it's a 
> diverse world. I'm sure there's a place for Vintage Shoes should it 
> become more maintainable again.
>
> Looking forward to trying it out. Separating Shoes from its 
> embedded/wrapping Ruby seems like a great first step to increasing its 
> maintainability.
>
> I understand you're not a fan of Github, I read on your blog you want 
> to avoid vendor lock-in, and right you are. Maybe you could write a 
> blog post with download/build instructions and a link to the tarball, 
> to add some visibility to your efforts?
>
> Cheers, good stuff!
>
> Arne
>
>
>

Re: [shoes] Updating Red Shoes - Request for help. Wordy. Long.

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2013-12-20 @ 13:47
HI Cecil,
I also commend you for picking up the Shoes 3 (Vintage Shoes) torch anew.

As for git hosting, I recommend you look here an pick one :
https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitHosting.   ANY git hosting is
about 4-order-magnitude better than going back to the dark ages (the 80's
?) of pre-VCS tarball swapping.  Echk.

Kindest Regards.... SHOES ON!


Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Arne Brasseur <arne.brasseur@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Cecil,
>
> Just wanted to say I think it's very laudable what you're doing. It would
> be great if the original Shoes code base didn't have to die from neglect
> and bitrot. It's a hairy project, more than one person (nearly) burned out
> on it. But it seems you know what you're doing. Most Shoesers are moving on
> and working hard on Shoes 4, but it's a diverse world. I'm sure there's a
> place for Vintage Shoes should it become more maintainable again.
>
> Looking forward to trying it out. Separating Shoes from its
> embedded/wrapping Ruby seems like a great first step to increasing its
> maintainability.
>
> I understand you're not a fan of Github, I read on your blog you want to
> avoid vendor lock-in, and right you are. Maybe you could write a blog post
> with download/build instructions and a link to the tarball, to add some
> visibility to your efforts?
>
> Cheers, good stuff!
>
> Arne
>
>
>
> On 19 December 2013 06:45, Cecil Coupe <ccoupe@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>    I mentioned on the monthly video call that I was  updating Red Shoes
>> to play nice with current Linux versions. That turned out be harder than
>> I expected and I'm no where near where I want it to be but I've found &
>> fixed some very annoying bugs from the Ruby 1.9.1 conversion way back
>> when  _why departed.  I know why you can't download a binary Shoes for
>> linux and expect it to work. You still can't (yet).  I know why the
>> terminal gets all those Constant overwrite messages.  Those errors are
>> mostly harmless but they bothered me because it wasn't clean and
>> sometimes, mostly harmless isn't.
>>
>> I created a new release name, 'Federales'  and there are two versions of
>> that. Loose Shoes and Tight Shoes. Tight Shoes is more like the current
>> Red Shoes - very tightly controlled and it is no where near being
>> finished. Loose Shoes is for folks that are willing to build from
>> source. It doesn't include its own copy of Ruby - it uses what you have
>> (rvm recommended). It uses gems installed by you in your Ruby and not
>> the Shoes sandboxed gems.  Want to use serialport? 'gem install
>> serialport' and then start Shoes.  If you don't have all the
>> dependencies, it won't link and you'll have to apt-get or yum them.
>>
>> It works on my Ubuntu 13.10 64 bit and on my raspberry pi (raspbian - if
>> you install rvm and build ruby-1.9.3 on the pi and install gtk+2.0-dev
>> and curl-dev and some other packages). In fact you have to install all
>> that on Ubuntu and Debian Wheezy and you have to install gtk2 dev.
>> That's where I could really use some help. Gtk+-3.0 is what all the
>> Linux use nowdays. If you set the obvious constant in make/linux/env.rb
>> it will compile with Gtk3 and it mostly works. Mostly unless you run
>> samples/simple-menu or simple-accordion.rb. I could really use some help
>> with the GTK3 conversion - its only three functions that interact.
>>
>> You could also test if the default build (Loose Shoes) works for your
>> Linux.  Github and I lost our way long ago, so you have to download it
>> from http://www.mvmanila.com/public/shoes3.2.tar.gz
>>
>> --Cecil
>>
>> --- futures ---
>> if you poke around the downloaded files (hint: 'rake -T') you can see
>> where I'm heading with federales and cross compiling. If you wonder why
>> I chose Federales or the icon I'm using for it then you've missed this
>> bit of popular song writing: Pancho and Lefty.
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd41cVwl9FY "all the federales say, they
>> could have had him any day. But they him let slip away, out of kindness
>> I suppose"
>>
>> Oh I almost forgot.The reason for all the errors? Shoes didn't have the
>> normal ruby file structure and when 1.9.3 is initialized it looks for
>> rubygems.rb (and rbconfig.rb) well before the first line of shoes.rb
>> runs or cache.rb attempts to rewrite history.  Much hilarity occurs if
>> you get two rbconfig.rb from two different paths or rubygems.rb on two
>> different load paths or two different paths for the utf encoders.  So I
>> changed Shoes to have a normal ruby directory structure.
>>
>> Did I mention the Gtk3 conversion and I could use some help? Without
>> Gtk3, red shoes won't be going anywhere. In shoes/native/gtk.c is _why's
>> original code and my conversion to Gtk3 with appropriate #ifdefs.  Even
>> if you don't know Gtk2 or Gtk3 you might be able to hint me on what I
>> should do. Maybe I can't see the obvious when I'm in the trees? Been
>> there before.
>>
>
>