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Shoes at JRuby Conf?

Shoes at JRuby Conf?

From:
Eric Watson
Date:
2012-03-22 @ 13:43
Hi all!

I've just been looking a little closer at the java shoes. Really wonderful
work, ashbb, peter, and everyone!

So [JRuby Conf][1] is in my neighborhood this year. They're having a [Kids
Code Camp][2]. I was planning to volunteer for that, and see what our 
friends over at [KidsRuby][3] are up to.

I noticed that the call for proposals is open through the end of March. 
Maybe I should submit a talk on JRuby Shoes. Or maybe someone else already
has??? Charles Nutter of JRuby dropped into #shoes recently to offer his 
guidance, and JRuby Conf is in his hometown this year, so I'm sure he'd 
love to help us put something together.

So...do you think we're at a point where JRuby Shoes is presentable?

Have we reached a point in our explorations where we can begin to work 
together on polishing one implementation? What are the major issues right 
now? I think Java might offer us some packaging options that we don't have
off-the-shelf in Ruby.

Does anyone have a good idea for a Shoes app that leverages something cool
in Java, that could really show off the simplicity of Shoes, while also 
showing off integration with Java? (Has anyone even tried that yet, beyond
using Swing and SWT?)

I'd love start pitching in a little here, so we can show off your work!

Eric 


[1] http://jrubyconf.com/
[2] http://jrubyconf.com/news/2012/03/kidscodecamp
[3] http://kidsruby.com/

Re: [shoes] Shoes at JRuby Conf?

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2012-03-22 @ 13:56
Jruby Shoes is fractured right now.
Green Shoes is GTK, and depends upon the installed GTK C-libraries.

I am working on Swing Shoes and SWT Shoes.  Both under the guise of "Brown
Shoes".
Brown Shoes also represents a wholesale rewrite of the Shoes
underpinnings.  On one hand, the basic structure of the Shoes library is
not that complex to begin with (C-Ruby not withstanding).  On the other
hand, building a Shoes "Framework", where each GUi implementation is a
"plugin" has been quite a bit of learning on my part.

I have been looking at packaging, startup over the past month.  I have yet
to discover a compelling build/package/run configuration that would satisfy
the  end-user constraints and features of our project.  My most recent work
has been around adopting Dan Lucraft's startup mechanism as used by Redcar
IDE.  The pain point I encountered was Bundler, which has been the subject
of other threads on this ML.

I'm happy to work with you.  I haven't presented at a major conference
before.  I"ve presented at Chicago-Ruby a few times.  I am interested in
the possibility of co-presenting with you.  Minneapolis is my hometown, and
I can be available for the May dates.
Maybe we present the framework and build/package process and how Java helps
Shoes become a reality, and JRuby helps us devs stay happy.
For the KidsCamp, we could run RedShoes, since the end-user experience for
Shoes should remain unchanged between Shoe-colors.

Thoughts?

Steve Klabnik, could you throw in your two cents?



Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Eric Watson <wasnotrice@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> I've just been looking a little closer at the java shoes. Really wonderful
> work, ashbb, peter, and everyone!
>
> So [JRuby Conf][1] is in my neighborhood this year. They're having a [Kids
> Code Camp][2]. I was planning to volunteer for that, and see what our
> friends over at [KidsRuby][3] are up to.
>
> I noticed that the call for proposals is open through the end of March.
> Maybe I should submit a talk on JRuby Shoes. Or maybe someone else already
> has??? Charles Nutter of JRuby dropped into #shoes recently to offer his
> guidance, and JRuby Conf is in his hometown this year, so I'm sure he'd
> love to help us put something together.
>
> So...do you think we're at a point where JRuby Shoes is presentable?
>
> Have we reached a point in our explorations where we can begin to work
> together on polishing one implementation? What are the major issues right
> now? I think Java might offer us some packaging options that we don't have
> off-the-shelf in Ruby.
>
> Does anyone have a good idea for a Shoes app that leverages something cool
> in Java, that could really show off the simplicity of Shoes, while also
> showing off integration with Java? (Has anyone even tried that yet, beyond
> using Swing and SWT?)
>
> I'd love start pitching in a little here, so we can show off your work!
>
> Eric
>
>
> [1] http://jrubyconf.com/
> [2] http://jrubyconf.com/news/2012/03/kidscodecamp
> [3] http://kidsruby.com/
>

Re: [shoes] Shoes at JRuby Conf?

From:
Eric Watson
Date:
2012-03-22 @ 14:58
On Mar 22, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:

> Jruby Shoes is fractured right now.

Right, and that's perfect, because we have a couple of different 
approaches to evaluate. And maybe it's too early to "force" cohesion.

> Green Shoes is GTK, and depends upon the installed GTK C-libraries.

But ashbb's Purple Shoes (SWT) works for a lot of apps, and doesn't depend
on GTK, I don't think (I say this because I couldn't get the Green Shoes 
deps to install in the presence of my Red Shoes deps for OS X, but Purple 
installed easily).

See https://github.com/ashbb/purple_shoes

> I am working on Swing Shoes and SWT Shoes.  Both under the guise of 
"Brown Shoes".
> Brown Shoes also represents a wholesale rewrite of the Shoes 
underpinnings.  On one hand, the basic structure of the Shoes library is 
not that complex to begin with (C-Ruby not withstanding).  On the other 
hand, building a Shoes "Framework", where each GUi implementation is a 
"plugin" has been quite a bit of learning on my part.

I agree. I'd be interested in thoughts about the different approaches we 
have in Brown Shoes and Purple Shoes. ashbb, is most of your purple shoes 
code the same as your green shoes code? It kind of looked like it to me.

> I have been looking at packaging, startup over the past month.  I have 
yet to discover a compelling build/package/run configuration that would 
satisfy the  end-user constraints and features of our project.  My most 
recent work has been around adopting Dan Lucraft's startup mechanism as 
used by Redcar IDE.  The pain point I encountered was Bundler, which has 
been the subject of other threads on this ML.

I agree, the packaging is really a key feature of Shoes. A first-class 
implementation needs to be packagable.

> I'm happy to work with you.  I haven't presented at a major conference 
before.  I"ve presented at Chicago-Ruby a few times.  I am interested in 
the possibility of co-presenting with you.  Minneapolis is my hometown, 
and I can be available for the May dates.
> Maybe we present the framework and build/package process and how Java 
helps Shoes become a reality, and JRuby helps us devs stay happy.

Awesome! I haven't presented before either :) but I'd be up for a joint 
venture. I'm also happy to present "work in progress" if we think it would
be useful/interesting. Also, an impetus to get stuff done! I'm just up the
road in Duluth. I also haven't used JRuby a whole lot, but this is a nice 
excuse!

> For the KidsCamp, we could run RedShoes, since the end-user experience 
for Shoes should remain unchanged between Shoe-colors.

I agree that Red Shoes is the best bet for a workshop. I think this 
KidsCamp is being run by the KidsRuby folks, using KidsRuby. I was 
planning to just support them and use that tool for teaching.

> Steve Klabnik, could you throw in your two cents?

Steve's got some family stuff going on right now, so he might not be able 
to respond at the moment.

Eric


> 
> 
> 
> Peter Fitzgibbons
> (847) 859-9550
> Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
> IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Eric Watson <wasnotrice@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all!
> 
> I've just been looking a little closer at the java shoes. Really 
wonderful work, ashbb, peter, and everyone!
> 
> So [JRuby Conf][1] is in my neighborhood this year. They're having a 
[Kids Code Camp][2]. I was planning to volunteer for that, and see what 
our friends over at [KidsRuby][3] are up to.
> 
> I noticed that the call for proposals is open through the end of March. 
Maybe I should submit a talk on JRuby Shoes. Or maybe someone else already
has??? Charles Nutter of JRuby dropped into #shoes recently to offer his 
guidance, and JRuby Conf is in his hometown this year, so I'm sure he'd 
love to help us put something together.
> 
> So...do you think we're at a point where JRuby Shoes is presentable?
> 
> Have we reached a point in our explorations where we can begin to work 
together on polishing one implementation? What are the major issues right 
now? I think Java might offer us some packaging options that we don't have
off-the-shelf in Ruby.
> 
> Does anyone have a good idea for a Shoes app that leverages something 
cool in Java, that could really show off the simplicity of Shoes, while 
also showing off integration with Java? (Has anyone even tried that yet, 
beyond using Swing and SWT?)
> 
> I'd love start pitching in a little here, so we can show off your work!
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> [1] http://jrubyconf.com/
> [2] http://jrubyconf.com/news/2012/03/kidscodecamp
> [3] http://kidsruby.com/
> 

Re: [shoes] Shoes at JRuby Conf?

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2012-03-22 @ 15:56
Inline...


On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Eric Watson <wasnotrice@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mar 22, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:
>
> > Jruby Shoes is fractured right now.
>
> Right, and that's perfect, because we have a couple of different
> approaches to evaluate. And maybe it's too early to "force" cohesion.
>
> > Green Shoes is GTK, and depends upon the installed GTK C-libraries.
>
> But ashbb's Purple Shoes (SWT) works for a lot of apps, and doesn't depend
> on GTK, I don't think (I say this because I couldn't get the Green Shoes
> deps to install in the presence of my Red Shoes deps for OS X, but Purple
> installed easily).
>
> See https://github.com/ashbb/purple_shoes
>

Yep, Ash and I have discussed greatly.  My effort is focused on a
TDD/TestFirst implementation, which has driven many of the design choices
I've made so far.  Steve and I discussed this and together we decided that
my effort is the beginning of a Shoes Framework, where one requires a
ShoesFramework and Shoes<gui> in order to run shoes.  The Shoes<gui> gems
would be SwtShoes, SwingShoes, GtkShoes, RedShoes, etc.


>  > I have been looking at packaging, startup over the past month.  I have
> yet to discover a compelling build/package/run configuration that would
> satisfy the  end-user constraints and features of our project.  My most
> recent work has been around adopting Dan Lucraft's startup mechanism as
> used by Redcar IDE.  The pain point I encountered was Bundler, which has
> been the subject of other threads on this ML.
>
> I agree, the packaging is really a key feature of Shoes. A first-class
> implementation needs to be packagable.
>

Do you have any further thoughts on this?  I could commit my code so far
for review and consideration.


>
> > I'm happy to work with you.  I haven't presented at a major conference
> before.  I"ve presented at Chicago-Ruby a few times.  I am interested in
> the possibility of co-presenting with you.  Minneapolis is my hometown, and
> I can be available for the May dates.
> > Maybe we present the framework and build/package process and how Java
> helps Shoes become a reality, and JRuby helps us devs stay happy.
>
> Awesome! I haven't presented before either :) but I'd be up for a joint
> venture. I'm also happy to present "work in progress" if we think it would
> be useful/interesting. Also, an impetus to get stuff done! I'm just up the
> road in Duluth. I also haven't used JRuby a whole lot, but this is a nice
> excuse!
>

I'll start the planning process.  I'll look at other proposals to get a
feel for scope and topic.

>
> > For the KidsCamp, we could run RedShoes, since the end-user experience
> for Shoes should remain unchanged between Shoe-colors.
>
> I agree that Red Shoes is the best bet for a workshop. I think this
> KidsCamp is being run by the KidsRuby folks, using KidsRuby. I was planning
> to just support them and use that tool for teaching.
>

Yep.  This doesn't have to mesh with KidsCamp beyond a reference to
HacketyHack.

>
> > Steve Klabnik, could you throw in your two cents?
>
> Steve's got some family stuff going on right now, so he might not be able
> to respond at the moment.
>
> Eric
>
> Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com

Re: [shoes] Shoes at JRuby Conf?

From:
ashbb
Date:
2012-03-23 @ 12:19
Hi Eric, Peter and folks,

> Maybe I should submit a talk on JRuby Shoes.
Fantastic!!

> ashbb, is most of your purple shoes code the same as
> your green shoes code?
Yes.
I've been rewriting green shoes code as purple shoes code with SWT instead
of GTK. So, Purple Shoes works with just only JRuby and SWT gem. You don't
have to install GTK.

> What are the major issues right now?
In my personal experiences, I feel that SWT has higher affinity than GTK to
implement Shoes in Ruby. Although there is the issue of the timing of
disposing resources in Purple Shoes for now. :-P

> Does anyone have a good idea for a Shoes app that leverages something cool
> in Java
I don't know anything about Jave, sorry.
But I found the following two on kidsruby website.
 - RubyWarrior
 - Turtle graphics

I wrote the following with Green Shoes. I've not tried them out with Purple
Shoes yet. But they will work by the time of JRuby Conf, hopefully. :)

 - http://vgoff.posterous.com/three-viewers-for-ruby-warrior
 - http://vgoff.posterous.com/hackety-hack-lesson-viewer-with-green-shoes

> I'd love start pitching in a little here, so we can show off your work!
Cool!
I can't attend at JRuby Conf, but willing to help you as far as possible.

Cheers,
ashbb

Re: [shoes] Shoes at JRuby Conf?

From:
Eric Watson
Date:
2012-03-24 @ 06:18
> > ashbb, is most of your purple shoes code the same as
> > your green shoes code?
> Yes.
> I've been rewriting green shoes code as purple shoes code with SWT 
instead of GTK. So, Purple Shoes works with just only JRuby and SWT gem. 
You don't have to install GTK.

And do you use pretty much the same Shoes classes (button and slot, etc)?

> 
> > What are the major issues right now?
> In my personal experiences, I feel that SWT has higher affinity than GTK
to implement Shoes in Ruby. 

This is really interesting (and great)!

> I wrote the following with Green Shoes. I've not tried them out with 
Purple Shoes yet. But they will work by the time of JRuby Conf, hopefully.
:)
> 
>  - http://vgoff.posterous.com/three-viewers-for-ruby-warrior
>  - http://vgoff.posterous.com/hackety-hack-lesson-viewer-with-green-shoes
> 

Cool. I will check those out. How much rewriting do you think it will 
take? Best would be none :P

> > I'd love start pitching in a little here, so we can show off your work!
> Cool!
> I can't attend at JRuby Conf, but willing to help you as far as possible.

Thanks! Let's see how far we can go.

Eric

Re: [shoes] Shoes at JRuby Conf?

From:
ashbb
Date:
2012-03-24 @ 17:09
> And do you use pretty much the same Shoes classes (button and slot, etc)?
Yes. Green and Purple are the same. Red is slightly different.

> How much rewriting do you think it will take? Best would be none :P
hahaha. That's true!
But I think it'll be necessary to rewrite a little bit.

> Let's see how far we can go.
Okay! Let's have fun. :-D

ashbb