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[shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

[shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Tobias Pfeiffer
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 12:35
Hello shoesers,

shoes4 is doing well and already quite some examples are running 
(https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/blob/master/samples/README) - so go 
ahead and check them out!

We are optimistically hoping for a release next year, so we thought of a 
rough road map/release plan with what we would want to have finished by 
what version. We would like to get your input on this and discuss it :-)

---------------------------------------------------------
Shoes 4 roadmap

- 4.0.0-pre1
   run all examples

- 4.0.0-pre2
   update built-in manual

- 4.0.0
   + upload shoes-4.0.0.gem to RubyGems.org
   + redesign Shoes website

- 4.0.1
   support packaging

- 4.0.2
   run Hackety Hack
-------------------------------------------------------------

So please chime in if you think something should be different or if 
you'd wanna change something.

Also this is your reminder that most of the discussions regarding 
development take place on the issues at the shoes4 repository 
(https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/issues).

Moreover I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone that 
contributed to shoes4 in any way, be it code, discussions, trying 
something out or finding issues. You're awesome!!!!

Last but not least, I hope that all of you will have a great new year!

Shoes on!
Tobi

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 13:24
WOW!  Compared to where Steve and I started early 2012, this is SOOO CLOSE!
I'm very impressed with all the work you have done and the collaboration
you have kept.

I'm looking forward to Shoes 4 in 2013.

PS: Happy New Year!

PPS: I'm now a Windows Azure developer (Oh the hats I wear).  Hopefully
I'll have some time to spin up the ruby toolchain on Windows 7 and try out
the build and dev tools on Windows for Shoes.

Shoes On!

Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Tobias Pfeiffer <
tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:

> Hello shoesers,
>
> shoes4 is doing well and already quite some examples are running
> (https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/blob/master/samples/README) - so go
> ahead and check them out!
>
> We are optimistically hoping for a release next year, so we thought of a
> rough road map/release plan with what we would want to have finished by
> what version. We would like to get your input on this and discuss it :-)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Shoes 4 roadmap
>
> - 4.0.0-pre1
>    run all examples
>
> - 4.0.0-pre2
>    update built-in manual
>
> - 4.0.0
>    + upload shoes-4.0.0.gem to RubyGems.org
>    + redesign Shoes website
>
> - 4.0.1
>    support packaging
>
> - 4.0.2
>    run Hackety Hack
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> So please chime in if you think something should be different or if
> you'd wanna change something.
>
> Also this is your reminder that most of the discussions regarding
> development take place on the issues at the shoes4 repository
> (https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/issues).
>
> Moreover I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone that
> contributed to shoes4 in any way, be it code, discussions, trying
> something out or finding issues. You're awesome!!!!
>
> Last but not least, I hope that all of you will have a great new year!
>
> Shoes on!
> Tobi
>

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
David Eastman
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 16:37
Obvious that shoes4 is genuinely doing it, leading back to the promised
land etc. and thank you for that.

I know this won't be popular but placing "support packaging" at 4.0.1 and
after a gem release is returning to the shoes-as-not-serious paradigm.

I realise with JRuby the issues should be less extreme than before, but for
Shoes to truly take its place in the framework firmament, it must
have relatively straightforward packaging

I would suggest going for *one *packaging target before gem release (it
doesn't matter which mac/win/linux) and making sure regression tests embed
it as a true part of Shoes4. By releasing a version with some packaging
promises, you will get all the bugs from unfriendly testers in for later
fixes.


On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Peter Fitzgibbons <
peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com> wrote:

> WOW!  Compared to where Steve and I started early 2012, this is SOOO CLOSE!
> I'm very impressed with all the work you have done and the collaboration
> you have kept.
>
> I'm looking forward to Shoes 4 in 2013.
>
> PS: Happy New Year!
>
> PPS: I'm now a Windows Azure developer (Oh the hats I wear).  Hopefully
> I'll have some time to spin up the ruby toolchain on Windows 7 and try out
> the build and dev tools on Windows for Shoes.
>
> Shoes On!
>
> Peter Fitzgibbons
> (847) 859-9550
> Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
> IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Tobias Pfeiffer <
> tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:
>
>> Hello shoesers,
>>
>> shoes4 is doing well and already quite some examples are running
>> (https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/blob/master/samples/README) - so go
>> ahead and check them out!
>>
>> We are optimistically hoping for a release next year, so we thought of a
>> rough road map/release plan with what we would want to have finished by
>> what version. We would like to get your input on this and discuss it :-)
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> Shoes 4 roadmap
>>
>> - 4.0.0-pre1
>>    run all examples
>>
>> - 4.0.0-pre2
>>    update built-in manual
>>
>> - 4.0.0
>>    + upload shoes-4.0.0.gem to RubyGems.org
>>    + redesign Shoes website
>>
>> - 4.0.1
>>    support packaging
>>
>> - 4.0.2
>>    run Hackety Hack
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> So please chime in if you think something should be different or if
>> you'd wanna change something.
>>
>> Also this is your reminder that most of the discussions regarding
>> development take place on the issues at the shoes4 repository
>> (https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/issues).
>>
>> Moreover I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone that
>> contributed to shoes4 in any way, be it code, discussions, trying
>> something out or finding issues. You're awesome!!!!
>>
>> Last but not least, I hope that all of you will have a great new year!
>>
>> Shoes on!
>> Tobi
>>
>
>

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Tobias Pfeiffer
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 19:20
Thanks for the input, this is exactly the kind of feedback we are 
looking for! :-)

Eric already worked on packaging so we are on the way. However it is 
likely that packaging will be an extra gem and not a direct dependency 
of the shoes gem. Partly due to gem size (which we still have to figure 
out) and partly because people that just want to run shoes programs 
won't need it.

Reasoning behind putting packaging in the second release, at least from 
my side, was that we could get feedback as early as possible about the 
shoes implementation.

I clearly see your point and so putting at least basic working packaging 
into the 4.0 release really might be a good thing!
What do the others say? Eric, a tiny report about the current status of 
packaging?

Cheers,
Tobi

On 12/29/2012 05:37 PM, David Eastman wrote:
> Obvious that shoes4 is genuinely doing it, leading back to the 
> promised land etc. and thank you for that.
>
> I know this won't be popular but placing "support packaging" at 4.0.1 
> and after a gem release is returning to the shoes-as-not-serious paradigm.
>
> I realise with JRuby the issues should be less extreme than before, 
> but for Shoes to truly take its place in the framework firmament, it 
> must have relatively straightforward packaging
>
> I would suggest going for *one *packaging target before gem release 
> (it doesn't matter which mac/win/linux) and making sure regression 
> tests embed it as a true part of Shoes4. By releasing a version with 
> some packaging promises, you will get all the bugs from unfriendly 
> testers in for later fixes.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Peter Fitzgibbons 
> <peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com <mailto:peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     WOW!  Compared to where Steve and I started early 2012, this is
>     SOOO CLOSE!
>     I'm very impressed with all the work you have done and the
>     collaboration you have kept.
>
>     I'm looking forward to Shoes 4 in 2013.
>
>     PS: Happy New Year!
>
>     PPS: I'm now a Windows Azure developer (Oh the hats I wear). 
>     Hopefully I'll have some time to spin up the ruby toolchain on
>     Windows 7 and try out the build and dev tools on Windows for Shoes.
>
>     Shoes On!
>
>     Peter Fitzgibbons
>     (847) 859-9550 <tel:%28847%29%20859-9550>
>     Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>     <mailto:peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com>
>     IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
>     IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>     <mailto:peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com>
>
>
>     On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Tobias Pfeiffer
>     <tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de
>     <mailto:tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de>> wrote:
>
>         Hello shoesers,
>
>         shoes4 is doing well and already quite some examples are running
>         (https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/blob/master/samples/README) -
>         so go
>         ahead and check them out!
>
>         We are optimistically hoping for a release next year, so we
>         thought of a
>         rough road map/release plan with what we would want to have
>         finished by
>         what version. We would like to get your input on this and
>         discuss it :-)
>
>         ---------------------------------------------------------
>         Shoes 4 roadmap
>
>         - 4.0.0-pre1
>            run all examples
>
>         - 4.0.0-pre2
>            update built-in manual
>
>         - 4.0.0
>            + upload shoes-4.0.0.gem to RubyGems.org
>            + redesign Shoes website
>
>         - 4.0.1
>            support packaging
>
>         - 4.0.2
>            run Hackety Hack
>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         So please chime in if you think something should be different
>         or if
>         you'd wanna change something.
>
>         Also this is your reminder that most of the discussions regarding
>         development take place on the issues at the shoes4 repository
>         (https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/issues).
>
>         Moreover I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone that
>         contributed to shoes4 in any way, be it code, discussions, trying
>         something out or finding issues. You're awesome!!!!
>
>         Last but not least, I hope that all of you will have a great
>         new year!
>
>         Shoes on!
>         Tobi
>
>
>

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Davor
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 22:16
Releasing the packaging tool at the same time as the shoes4 gem is 
probably a good idea. But as it looks right now we *will* package it 
separately (unless we figure out how to make it way smaller). I think 
adding packaging to the Shoes4 gem made it almost 200MB (without the 
packager it's <50MB).
-- 
Davor Babic
davor@davor.se


Tobias Pfeiffer skrev:
> Thanks for the input, this is exactly the kind of feedback we are
> looking for! :-)
>
> Eric already worked on packaging so we are on the way. However it is
> likely that packaging will be an extra gem and not a direct dependency
> of the shoes gem. Partly due to gem size (which we still have to figure
> out) and partly because people that just want to run shoes programs
> won't need it.
>
> Reasoning behind putting packaging in the second release, at least from
> my side, was that we could get feedback as early as possible about the
> shoes implementation.
>
> I clearly see your point and so putting at least basic working packaging
> into the 4.0 release really might be a good thing!
> What do the others say? Eric, a tiny report about the current status of
> packaging?
>
> Cheers,
> Tobi
>
> On 12/29/2012 05:37 PM, David Eastman wrote:
>> Obvious that shoes4 is genuinely doing it, leading back to the
>> promised land etc. and thank you for that.
>>
>> I know this won't be popular but placing "support packaging" at 4.0.1
>> and after a gem release is returning to the shoes-as-not-serious paradigm.
>>
>> I realise with JRuby the issues should be less extreme than before,
>> but for Shoes to truly take its place in the framework firmament, it
>> must have relatively straightforward packaging
>>
>> I would suggest going for *one *packaging target before gem release
>> (it doesn't matter which mac/win/linux) and making sure regression
>> tests embed it as a true part of Shoes4. By releasing a version with
>> some packaging promises, you will get all the bugs from unfriendly
>> testers in for later fixes.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Peter Fitzgibbons
>> <peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com <mailto:peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     WOW!  Compared to where Steve and I started early 2012, this is
>>     SOOO CLOSE!
>>     I'm very impressed with all the work you have done and the
>>     collaboration you have kept.
>>
>>     I'm looking forward to Shoes 4 in 2013.
>>
>>     PS: Happy New Year!
>>
>>     PPS: I'm now a Windows Azure developer (Oh the hats I wear).
>>     Hopefully I'll have some time to spin up the ruby toolchain on
>>     Windows 7 and try out the build and dev tools on Windows for Shoes.
>>
>>     Shoes On!
>>
>>     Peter Fitzgibbons
>>     (847) 859-9550 <tel:%28847%29%20859-9550>
>>     Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>>     <mailto:peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com>
>>     IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
>>     IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>>     <mailto:peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>     On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Tobias Pfeiffer
>>     <tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de
>>     <mailto:tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de>> wrote:
>>
>>         Hello shoesers,
>>
>>         shoes4 is doing well and already quite some examples are running
>>         (https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/blob/master/samples/README) -
>>         so go
>>         ahead and check them out!
>>
>>         We are optimistically hoping for a release next year, so we
>>         thought of a
>>         rough road map/release plan with what we would want to have
>>         finished by
>>         what version. We would like to get your input on this and
>>         discuss it :-)
>>
>>         ---------------------------------------------------------
>>         Shoes 4 roadmap
>>
>>         - 4.0.0-pre1
>>            run all examples
>>
>>         - 4.0.0-pre2
>>            update built-in manual
>>
>>         - 4.0.0
>>            + upload shoes-4.0.0.gem to RubyGems.org
>>            + redesign Shoes website
>>
>>         - 4.0.1
>>            support packaging
>>
>>         - 4.0.2
>>            run Hackety Hack
>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         So please chime in if you think something should be different
>>         or if
>>         you'd wanna change something.
>>
>>         Also this is your reminder that most of the discussions regarding
>>         development take place on the issues at the shoes4 repository
>>         (https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/issues).
>>
>>         Moreover I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone that
>>         contributed to shoes4 in any way, be it code, discussions, trying
>>         something out or finding issues. You're awesome!!!!
>>
>>         Last but not least, I hope that all of you will have a great
>>         new year!
>>
>>         Shoes on!
>>         Tobi
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Eric Watson
Date:
2012-12-30 @ 00:25

On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Davor <davor@davor.se> wrote:

> But as it looks right now we *will* package it 
> separately (unless we figure out how to make it way smaller). I think 
> adding packaging to the Shoes4 gem made it almost 200MB (without the 
> packager it's <50MB).

Yes. This is because currently, the .app skeleton is included, which 
includes the jdk. We will have to remove this if we want to distribute the
packager as a gem (make it a separate download)

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2012-12-30 @ 01:20
How far astray from Shoes 3 are we going to go?
Shoes3 right now is a self-bootstrapping sort of beast, where I can
download and "install" shoes (which was provided by the packager). That
installed Shoes can then "package" an app (.shy?), which is a completely
self-contained Shoes installer, plus my app (.sh).  The subsequent
Shoes+App also includes the packager, and could be used for continued
packaging.

If I am correct, then we need to figure out how to handle the
Shoes+Packager installation / execution.
I wouldn't mind an on-the-fly download of packager if the user requested to
re-package a shoes app.

This of course is simply an aside from being able to run an App (.sh)
straigh from file, which would indeed only require the Shoes4 runtime.

Thoughts?


Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Eric Watson <wasnotrice@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Davor <davor@davor.se> wrote:
>
> > But as it looks right now we *will* package it
> > separately (unless we figure out how to make it way smaller). I think
> > adding packaging to the Shoes4 gem made it almost 200MB (without the
> > packager it's <50MB).
>
> Yes. This is because currently, the .app skeleton is included, which
> includes the jdk. We will have to remove this if we want to distribute the
> packager as a gem (make it a separate download)
>

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2012-12-30 @ 01:27
We had huuuge discussions about this on this list, check the archives:
http://librelist.com/browser/shoes/

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Eric Watson
Date:
2012-12-30 @ 19:39

On Dec 29, 2012, at 7:20 PM, Peter Fitzgibbons 
<peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com> wrote:

> How far astray from Shoes 3 are we going to go?

Not too far ;)

The idea of pulling the packager into a separate project is to make 
clearer seams in the code, and to possibly make the packaging code 
reusable for other kinds of apps. The packager will still be integral to 
Shoes (included in the distribution). 

The various app wrappers will probably be downloaded separately, since 
each platform needs to ship a different Java runtime. They are too big to 
pack all into a gem. I included the osx one in the shoes4 gem at first, 
and that was a mistake.

Packaging is super important for Shoes. We need to have working packaging 
for a next release. 

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
James Gifford
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 19:25
On Dec 29, 2012 2:21 PM, "Tobias Pfeiffer" <
tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the input, this is exactly the kind of feedback we are looking
for! :-)
>
> Eric already worked on packaging so we are on the way. However it is
likely that packaging will be an extra gem and not a direct dependency of
the shoes gem. Partly due to gem size (which we still have to figure out)
and partly because people that just want to run shoes programs won't need
it.

Right.
> Reasoning behind putting packaging in the second release, at least from
my side, was that we could get feedback as early as possible about the
shoes implementation.

Yes, that makes sense.

> I clearly see your point and so putting at least basic working packaging
into the 4.0 release really might be a good thing!
> What do the others say? Eric, a tiny report about the current status of
packaging?

Yay packaging! I for one want to get David's waterbird out in the hands of
more people. :-)

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 16:55
+1

Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 10:37 AM, David Eastman <deastman1@gmail.com> wrote:

> Obvious that shoes4 is genuinely doing it, leading back to the promised
> land etc. and thank you for that.
>
> I know this won't be popular but placing "support packaging" at 4.0.1 and
> after a gem release is returning to the shoes-as-not-serious paradigm.
>
> I realise with JRuby the issues should be less extreme than before, but
> for Shoes to truly take its place in the framework firmament, it must
> have relatively straightforward packaging
>
> I would suggest going for *one *packaging target before gem release (it
> doesn't matter which mac/win/linux) and making sure regression tests embed
> it as a true part of Shoes4. By releasing a version with some packaging
> promises, you will get all the bugs from unfriendly testers in for later
> fixes.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Peter Fitzgibbons <
> peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> WOW!  Compared to where Steve and I started early 2012, this is SOOO
>> CLOSE!
>> I'm very impressed with all the work you have done and the collaboration
>> you have kept.
>>
>> I'm looking forward to Shoes 4 in 2013.
>>
>> PS: Happy New Year!
>>
>> PPS: I'm now a Windows Azure developer (Oh the hats I wear).  Hopefully
>> I'll have some time to spin up the ruby toolchain on Windows 7 and try out
>> the build and dev tools on Windows for Shoes.
>>
>> Shoes On!
>>
>> Peter Fitzgibbons
>> (847) 859-9550
>> Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>> IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
>> IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Tobias Pfeiffer <
>> tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello shoesers,
>>>
>>> shoes4 is doing well and already quite some examples are running
>>> (https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/blob/master/samples/README) - so go
>>> ahead and check them out!
>>>
>>> We are optimistically hoping for a release next year, so we thought of a
>>> rough road map/release plan with what we would want to have finished by
>>> what version. We would like to get your input on this and discuss it :-)
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>> Shoes 4 roadmap
>>>
>>> - 4.0.0-pre1
>>>    run all examples
>>>
>>> - 4.0.0-pre2
>>>    update built-in manual
>>>
>>> - 4.0.0
>>>    + upload shoes-4.0.0.gem to RubyGems.org
>>>    + redesign Shoes website
>>>
>>> - 4.0.1
>>>    support packaging
>>>
>>> - 4.0.2
>>>    run Hackety Hack
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> So please chime in if you think something should be different or if
>>> you'd wanna change something.
>>>
>>> Also this is your reminder that most of the discussions regarding
>>> development take place on the issues at the shoes4 repository
>>> (https://github.com/shoes/shoes4/issues).
>>>
>>> Moreover I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone that
>>> contributed to shoes4 in any way, be it code, discussions, trying
>>> something out or finding issues. You're awesome!!!!
>>>
>>> Last but not least, I hope that all of you will have a great new year!
>>>
>>> Shoes on!
>>> Tobi
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 22:10
could not decode message

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Tobias Pfeiffer
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 22:24
On 12/29/2012 11:10 PM, deastman1@gmail.com wrote:
> All good reasons.
>
> ".. people that just want to run shoes programs won't need it."
>
> Really? Take care how you limit others ambitions.
Yeah I think so. If you just want to distribute your programs written in 
shoes for other people to use.

Personally I'm working on a pomodoro tracker/personal management tool 
written in Shoes. I'd love to distribute it as a gem with a dependency 
on Shoes4 (once it runs under shoes4 and the gem is released). People 
that do "gem install pomdoro_tracker" don't want to install the tools 
needed for packaging (they might not ever want to write a shoes app, 
sadly) and it would be unnecessary for them to download an additional 
~150 MB or whatever. They just wanna use the tool (some of them) :-)

At least that's how I see it :-)

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Dan Simpson
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 23:23
Ah, so here is how i understand this all :

   - there's a shoes4 gem, which is the shoes4 runtime library required by
   all shoes apps, and
   - there's a shoes4_dev package (maybe a gem, but maybe not) which
   includes all of the development tools (including a packager).
   - Developers install the shoes4_dev package, but shoes app end users
   don't need to do so.
   - Hackety Hack wraps an IDE around the dev package and additional
   libraries (so maybe this would be a reason for the dev package to be
   available as a gem).

am i close?

peace and love and happy new year!
dan




On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Tobias Pfeiffer <
tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:

> On 12/29/2012 11:10 PM, deastman1@gmail.com wrote:
> > All good reasons.
> >
> > ".. people that just want to run shoes programs won't need it."
> >
> > Really? Take care how you limit others ambitions.
> Yeah I think so. If you just want to distribute your programs written in
> shoes for other people to use.
>
> Personally I'm working on a pomodoro tracker/personal management tool
> written in Shoes. I'd love to distribute it as a gem with a dependency
> on Shoes4 (once it runs under shoes4 and the gem is released). People
> that do "gem install pomdoro_tracker" don't want to install the tools
> needed for packaging (they might not ever want to write a shoes app,
> sadly) and it would be unnecessary for them to download an additional
> ~150 MB or whatever. They just wanna use the tool (some of them) :-)
>
> At least that's how I see it :-)
>

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Davor
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 23:36
It's more like this:

1. The shoes4 gem.
2. The shoes4-packager, which lets you build an .exe/.app/executable.

Everyone installs shoes4. They can use this to run shoes4 apps.

If they want to turn their Shoes app into a self-contained executable 
(.exe) that can run like any other program (that is, without having to 
install shoes4 or even JRuby), then they use the packager for that.
-- 
Davor Babic
davor@davor.se


Dan Simpson skrev:
> Ah, so here is how i understand this all :
>
>   * there's a shoes4 gem, which is the shoes4 runtime library required
>     by all shoes apps, and
>   * there's a shoes4_dev package (maybe a gem, but maybe not) which
>     includes all of the development tools (including a packager).
>   * Developers install the shoes4_dev package, but shoes app end users
>     don't need to do so.
>   * Hackety Hack wraps an IDE around the dev package and additional
>     libraries (so maybe this would be a reason for the dev package to be
>     available as a gem).
>
> am i close?
>
> peace and love and happy new year!
> dan
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Tobias Pfeiffer
> <tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de
> <mailto:tobias.pfeiffer@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de>> wrote:
>
>     On 12/29/2012 11:10 PM, deastman1@gmail.com
>     <mailto:deastman1@gmail.com> wrote:
>      > All good reasons.
>      >
>      > ".. people that just want to run shoes programs won't need it."
>      >
>      > Really? Take care how you limit others ambitions.
>     Yeah I think so. If you just want to distribute your programs written in
>     shoes for other people to use.
>
>     Personally I'm working on a pomodoro tracker/personal management tool
>     written in Shoes. I'd love to distribute it as a gem with a dependency
>     on Shoes4 (once it runs under shoes4 and the gem is released). People
>     that do "gem install pomdoro_tracker" don't want to install the tools
>     needed for packaging (they might not ever want to write a shoes app,
>     sadly) and it would be unnecessary for them to download an additional
>     ~150 MB or whatever. They just wanna use the tool (some of them) :-)
>
>     At least that's how I see it :-)
>
>

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Eric Watson
Date:
2012-12-30 @ 00:21

On Dec 29, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Davor <davor@davor.se> wrote:

> It's more like this:
> 
> 1. The shoes4 gem.
> 2. The shoes4-packager, which lets you build an .exe/.app/executable.

Yes, something like this. At the moment, packaging is integrated into the 
shoes4 project. It works for packaging apps as .jar files and as .app 
files for OS X. These both work from all 3 platforms. The plan is to break
that out into the shoes/furoshiki project. 

I agree that packaging must be a priority. While there may be some users 
who only want to run apps, we must still package the apps before they can 
be run.

Let's discuss what are the minimum requirements for packaging, and place 
those on 4.0.0. I would like to see full packages (including shoes 
framework) from any platform, targeting any platform.

Eric

Re: [shoes] [shoes4][discussion] A rough road map towards a shoes4 release

From:
Date:
2012-12-29 @ 20:42
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