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Can we release Policeman?

Can we release Policeman?

From:
Satoshi Asakawa
Date:
2010-03-27 @ 14:08
Hi all,

Can we release Policeman on 1st, April? ;-)

ashbb

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Devyn Cairns
Date:
2010-03-28 @ 03:04
According to bugs/project.yaml, these were the goals for Policeman:

      * Stability: fewer crashes, faster painting and text layout.
      * Upgrade all the dependencies to the latest.
      * Focus on Windows and OS X improvements.

Windows has been improved a lot, and OS X is still in-progress (if we can
get it to build 32-bit on 10.6, that'd be great). Dependencies to the latest
would be nice.

So... we haven't met *all* of these goals. We're almost there though. One of
the important things, I think, would be to get shoes working with libjpeg.8
instead of libjpeg.62, and libgif instead of libungif?

Also, we gotta get OS X working before we can release. That is a *must*. So,
I'd say April 1st is doubtful, but hopefully not too far away ;-D

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 7:08 AM, Satoshi Asakawa <ashbbb@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Can we release Policeman on 1st, April? ;-)
>
> ashbb
>



-- 
   ~devyn

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Satoshi Asakawa
Date:
2010-03-28 @ 14:03
Hi Devyn,

> we gotta get OS X working before we can release. That is a must.
Okay. No prob. April 1st is not a must.
Please keep on enjoying OSX building. ;-)

ashbb

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-03-28 @ 03:07
Yep. An OSX build would be nice...

I wish we could have figured that out today. Marylou and I kept slogging
through the makefile, but to no avail... yet!

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Satoshi Asakawa
Date:
2010-03-28 @ 14:09
Hi Steve and Marylou,

Awesome! Thank you for your time. B-)

ashbb

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-04-02 @ 20:48
So, my presentation last night went really well, and I got some
interest. Two or three people said they'd like to help out with
Shoooes/hackety.

So what's the state of the world? I've been so immersed in the 10.6
stuff that I haven't been paying as close attention to everything else
as I should have been. Do we have a checklist or something of things
that should be done to get Policeman out the door? I know there was
that spreadsheet, has that been updated?

I think with a slightly stronger vision of what needs done, it'll be
easier to get things knocked out.

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
i5m
Date:
2010-04-02 @ 21:13
Oh, and it would be nice to hear more about the presentation if you  
have time for a write up.

On 2 Apr 2010, at 21:48, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:

> So, my presentation last night went really well, and I got some
> interest. Two or three people said they'd like to help out with
> Shoooes/hackety.
>
> So what's the state of the world? I've been so immersed in the 10.6
> stuff that I haven't been paying as close attention to everything else
> as I should have been. Do we have a checklist or something of things
> that should be done to get Policeman out the door? I know there was
> that spreadsheet, has that been updated?
>
> I think with a slightly stronger vision of what needs done, it'll be
> easier to get things knocked out.

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
i5m
Date:
2010-04-02 @ 21:12
Well, last time I looked it was only Windows and OSX ppc builds that  
had been tested against the list. Needs some Linux love.

I think there are three things we need to do.

1) We need to make sure it works as well Raisins, hence the  
spreadsheet and testing to make sure sample apps work.

2) Also finish of Mental's basic packager GUI for Shy files, given the  
issues with packaging executables.

3) And lastly upgrade the dependencies:

As from the github wiki (http://wiki.github.com/shoes/shoes/shoes-roadmap 
) realistically the best we can do is:

- Upgrade all the dependencies to the latest.

And

- Finish the Ruby 1.9.1 support (could actually fall under the  
“upgrade dependencies” item above)

Unfortunately, and hoping I don't offend anyone here, only Ashbb and  
Cecil seem to have the time and skills we need to really fix Shoes  
itself. The rest of us are either learning or don't have enough time  
or both.


On 2 Apr 2010, at 21:48, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:

> So, my presentation last night went really well, and I got some
> interest. Two or three people said they'd like to help out with
> Shoooes/hackety.
>
> So what's the state of the world? I've been so immersed in the 10.6
> stuff that I haven't been paying as close attention to everything else
> as I should have been. Do we have a checklist or something of things
> that should be done to get Policeman out the door? I know there was
> that spreadsheet, has that been updated?
>
> I think with a slightly stronger vision of what needs done, it'll be
> easier to get things knocked out.

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Satoshi Asakawa
Date:
2010-04-02 @ 22:06
Hi i5m, Steve and folks,

I agree three things i5m wrote down, i.e:

- Check all shoes/samples.
  (I think it's okay to work about 80 percent. :-P)
- Check Mental's Shy file packager GUI.
- Upgrade the dependencies.
  (Ruby 1.9.1 is must. Others are as far as possible.)

BTW, if we upload the builds as alpha release, doesn't anyone appear to
check shoes/samples and let us know the results?

ashbb

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-04-03 @ 23:49
>
> Unfortunately, and hoping I don't offend anyone here, only Ashbb and

Cecil seem to have the time and skills we need to really fix Shoes

itself. The rest of us are either learning or don't have enough time

or both.


It's true. I've been putting in a bunch of time with little progress,
unfortunately :(.

 BTW, if we upload the builds as alpha release, doesn't anyone appear to
> check shoes/samples and let us know the results?


I'd be willing to test all of the samples against as many OSes as I can.




And I'll be writing up something about the presentation very soon, hopefully
tonight... it'll be posted on the Hackety Hack blog:
http://hacketyhack.heroku.com/blog

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2010-04-04 @ 05:49
There appears to be two distinct groups of shoes supporters: The
hacketyhack folks need/want shoes Policeman (and ruby 1.9.x) and then
folks like me who view shoes as a way to create and package up a ruby
gui script and distribute it. [exe, dmg, run] || [.shy]

Two different motivations and one code base. I suspect most on this list
are in the hackety crowd and I'm in the minority. That's fine. I've
fixed my issues for ruby 1.8.7 and I don't need 1.9.1, but that's just
me. 

If the populace wants a ruby 1.9.1/Policeman release so Hackety moves
forward, that's fine with me. Release it, it won't affect me or the
binary packaging crowd running 1.8.7 (assuming there is more than one in
my crowd).

FWIW, there are snow leopard build hints (**NOT** a recipe) for at
http://wiki.wxwidgets.org/Development:_wxMac#Building_under_10.6_Snow_Leopard


On Sat, 2010-04-03 at 19:49 -0400, Steve Klabnik wrote:
>         Unfortunately, and hoping I don't offend anyone here, only
>         Ashbb and
>         Cecil seem to have the time and skills we need to really fix
>         Shoes
>         itself. The rest of us are either learning or don't have
>         enough time
>         or both.
> 
> 
> It's true. I've been putting in a bunch of time with little progress,
> unfortunately :(.
> 
> 
>          BTW, if we upload the builds as alpha release, doesn't anyone
>         appear to check shoes/samples and let us know the results?
> 
> 
> I'd be willing to test all of the samples against as many OSes as I
> can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll be writing up something about the presentation very soon,
> hopefully tonight... it'll be posted on the Hackety Hack blog:
> http://hacketyhack.heroku.com/blog 

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-04-04 @ 06:39
Hey Cecil-

I'm actually the only one building Hackety, so I assure you, I'm in the
minority, not you. ;)

Personally, I don't care too much if Shoes stays with 1.8.7... I haven't
used 1.9 for anything at all yet, personally. All my Rails sites use 1.8.7.
I don't remember why the move to 1.9 was made, other than it should be,
since technically, 1.9 is the current stable release of Ruby.

I only need a stable Shoes release so that I have something to target.
Whatever's best for Shoes is what should happen; I can sort stuff out on my
end afterwards.

-Steve

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Trans
Date:
2010-04-04 @ 09:25
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 1:49 AM, Cecil Coupe <ccoupe@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> If the populace wants a ruby 1.9.1/Policeman release so Hackety moves
> forward, that's fine with me. Release it, it won't affect me or the
> binary packaging crowd running 1.8.7 (assuming there is more than one in
> my crowd).

At least 2.

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2010-04-05 @ 06:45
I finally took a look at the Ruby 1.9.1 vs 1.8.7 changes at
http://svn.ruby-lang.org/repos/ruby/tags/v1_9_1_0/NEWS

Those are the language level issues and some of them are going to be
tough for me -- not backwards compatible or easily conditionalized away
for a lot old (not shoes) scripts I have. I won't be permanently
switching to 1.9.1 anytime soon. They even affect a shoes script of mine
in the wild. 

I still haven't found documentation of the C-level embedding API changes
for 1.9.1, but I can guess better knowing what the user level changes
are. In binject.c, unicode strings vs bytes and some dense byte slinging
with macro sugar coating. I'm not comfortable and I think I know enough
to be wery, wery cautious. 

If folks need a stable release of Policeman any time soon, lets release
it compiling with and using.1.8.7 and then test that (unified source) on
Linux (32/64) OSX (32/64. 10.5/10.6, PPC/Intel) and Windows (more
versions). Fix the stubs/ files to not refer back to hackety.org and
call it a week or month. 

Adding 1.9.1 into the matrix of OS/arch doubles the confusion and
testing. Not made any easier with the req/ built in pseudo gems issues.
If nobody "needs" 1.9.1 Ruby language features then let's lower the
release hurdle. What _why wanted versus what _why did was always fluid.

It's also not _why's project anymore. It's ours and IMO, we shouldn't
attempt to slavishly meet _why's roadmap. Better to stabilize the
project at 1.8.7 than running off in twelve directions at one.

My very long 2 cents,
Cecil

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Trans
Date:
2010-04-05 @ 15:55
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 2:45 AM, Cecil Coupe <ccoupe@cableone.net> wrote:
> Adding 1.9.1 into the matrix of OS/arch doubles the confusion and
> testing. Not made any easier with the req/ built in pseudo gems issues.
> If nobody "needs" 1.9.1 Ruby language features then let's lower the
> release hurdle. What _why wanted versus what _why did was always fluid.
>
> It's also not _why's project anymore. It's ours and IMO, we shouldn't
> attempt to slavishly meet _why's roadmap. Better to stabilize the
> project at 1.8.7 than running off in twelve directions at one.

I would suggest making a cut-off point. Get this version working well
for 1.8.7 --plenty of minor point releases I'm sure. Then set a
date/milestone to make the transition to 1.9, make it and don't look
back.

We can't hold on to 1.8.7 forever, and I have a feeling Ruby 1.9 usage
will finally (FINALLY!) start to cascade in popularity some time this
year.

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-04-06 @ 14:12
I'd give this whole idea +1 as well. I hate to be contributing to the "not
1.9 yet" momentum, but it would seem to be the pragmatic decision...

A friend of mine has expressed great interest with helping out with both
Shoes and Hackety. "Let's get together after work for two or three hours
every day until Hackety 1.0 is released" kind of interest. So hopefully
between the two of us, we can figure out the Linux and possibly 10.6 issues.

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2010-04-07 @ 05:16
On Tue, 2010-04-06 at 10:12 -0400, Steve Klabnik wrote:
> I'd give this whole idea +1 as well. I hate to be contributing to the
> "not 1.9 yet" momentum, but it would seem to be the pragmatic
> decision...

Yup. If you need a stable Policemen, and given the situation , 1.8.7 is
the way. There's still work to do just to get 1.8.7 working with the new
host.  'rgrep hackety *' at the top of the shoes tree.  
> 
> 
> A friend of mine has expressed great interest with helping out with
> both Shoes and Hackety. "Let's get together after work for two or
> three hours every day until Hackety 1.0 is released" kind of interest.
> So hopefully between the two of us, we can figure out the Linux and
> possibly 10.6 issues.

I had an (ex) girlfriend who said something similar at the beginning of
that little train wreck. 

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2010-04-06 @ 06:58
> I would suggest making a cut-off point. Get this version working well
> for 1.8.7 --plenty of minor point releases I'm sure. Then set a
> date/milestone to make the transition to 1.9, make it and don't look
> back.

+1

> 
> We can't hold on to 1.8.7 forever, and I have a feeling Ruby 1.9 usage
> will finally (FINALLY!) start to cascade in popularity some time this
> year.

And Linux will become a mainstream desktop OS this year for sure. That's
not a personal attack on you Trans. Just a recognition of the strength
of inertia. Overcoming inertia is hard.

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Satoshi Asakawa
Date:
2010-04-06 @ 14:08
Hi Trans, Cecil et al,

I've never used Ruby 1.8.7 and I'm not sure I can find all dependencies for
Windows MinGW environment. But okay, I'm going to try to build Shoes with
Ruby 1.8.7. I'll have time in this weekend, ... hopefully. ;-)

Good suggestion, thanks.

ashbb

Re: [shoes] Can we release Policeman?

From:
Satoshi Asakawa
Date:
2010-04-02 @ 22:05
Hi Steve,

> So, my presentation last night went really well, and I got
> some interest. Two or three people said they'd like to help
> out with Shoooes/hackety.
Fantastic!
Very much appreciate your great work. Thank you!!

If it's possible, I'd like to know about the presentation. :)

ashbb