librelist archives

« back to archive

You guys are the best

You guys are the best

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-12-29 @ 16:12
Hey everyone-

I know this list has been a little bit quiet lately... but I just wanted to
say thanks again for all of the work getting Policeman together.

I'm going to be doing a bigger post on this in the future, with more
details, but to give you some numbers:

Hackety Hack site: 60k hits in the last few days.

11,000 copies downloaded. Even split mac/linux

700 linux downloads, though those are having all of the problems that Linux
pre-built shoes is having... i put a big disclaimer about how they might not
work, I just wanted to see some numbers.

2600 accounts on the website.

So.... your work on Red Shoes is being used by thousands of people. :)

I'm going to be hitting Red Shoes hard again in the next week or two,
especially on Windows. Lots of people reporting crashes and other errors,
especially Vista and Windows 7. I just filed all the bugs in the Hackety
issues list for now, but expect to see more out of me with Shoes over the
next few weeks as I iron all of this stuff out. I'm probably going to
attempt the 1.9.2 port as well, as it will probably fix some of the issues.

-Steve

Re: [shoes] You guys are the best

From:
ashbb
Date:
2010-12-30 @ 04:22
Hi Steve,

Great success of Hackety Hack 1.0. Congrats!

> So.... your work on Red Shoes is being used by thousands of people. :)
Unbelievable! Thank you for your hard work. Really cool!

BTW. About crashes and errors of Policeman, especially on Windows.

Ruby 1.9.2 port is great for the purpose of learning Ruby with HH.
But I doubt that it'll fix our issues for HH.
Rather, I'm afraid of getting even worse...

_why was developing Raisins with Ruby 1.8.6 mswin32 and VC6.
Policeman barely works with 1.9.1 mingw32. But I could not make a
substantial change, just added monkey patches.

So, if possible, it may be easier to rewrite HH to avoid Shoes bug.

IMHO, though.

ashbb

Re: [shoes] You guys are the best

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2010-12-30 @ 05:59
On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 13:22 +0900, ashbb wrote:

> _why was developing Raisins with Ruby 1.8.6 mswin32 and VC6.
> Policeman barely works with 1.9.1 mingw32. But I could not make a
> substantial change, just added monkey patches.
> 

Why not put the 1.8.7 #ifdefs back into Red Shoes (minor effort), test
(not so minor) and distribute a Shoes3.1 with embedded 1.8.7 that
actually works like it used to? (might be some osx 10.5/10.6 issues
32/64 to rediscover) Policeman did work in 1.8.7 until we fsked it up

Cutting edge Ruby folks can put their talents towards Green Shoes or
blue... without that nasty C platform dependent code.

Re: [shoes] You guys are the best

From:
ashbb
Date:
2010-12-30 @ 07:19
Hi Cecil,

> Policeman did work in 1.8.7
Exactly.
But there is still a difference between mswin32 and mingw32... sigh. :(

ashbb

Re: [shoes] You guys are the best

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2010-12-30 @ 09:05
Ashbb,

  Clearly, some folks have managed to write Windows C apps in mingw that
are installable. We (remaining Shoes developers) lack someone who knows
how to do that and is willing to work on the problem.  All of the
colored shoes will face the same problem when it comes to making a Shoes
binary distribution or packaging a script (w or w/o Shoes). Might as
well fix it for Red Shoes and the HH users now. IMO

 Typing too fast on (some) Windows versions? Could that be a 1.9.1
thread problem? I'd bet "yes it is" but without a working 1.8.7 base
case, we'll never know. 

 Best I can tell. ashbb  is that your setup.exe, when compared to
blank.exe might create a new Resource by shelling out to mingw (a fail
for Linux and OSX and even casual Windows Shoes users that don't have
mingw).

  Resource manipulation and creation is what binject.c does. The whole
reason binject exists is to Create resources in Windows pe format (or
OSX/dmg resources if asked). If there is a bug in there for mingw or
newer Windows that needs to be fixed in binject and not hacked around in
a mingw shell script

Yes, binject is a _why 'tar baby'. Touch it and it owns you forever. One
of the reasons why I'm not fixing it. I'm not going inside that code
without good backup. (lots of sticky fingers?). I'll bet most of you
feel that way -- someone else will fix this if I wait long enough.



On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 16:19 +0900, ashbb wrote:
> Hi Cecil,
> 
> > Policeman did work in 1.8.7
> Exactly.
> But there is still a difference between mswin32 and mingw32...
> sigh. :(
> 
> ashbb
> 

Re: [shoes] You guys are the best

From:
ashbb
Date:
2010-12-30 @ 10:03
Hi Cecil et al,

> All of the colored shoes will face the same problem when it comes to
> making a Shoes binary distribution or packaging a script (w or w/o Shoes).
True.
But nowadays, I think it's not so bad to use `gem` instead of binary
distribution.

ashbb

Re: [shoes] You guys are the best

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-12-30 @ 14:20
The biggest question I have is why this works basically flawlessly on OSX
(only one or two things...) yet bombs on Windows.

It makes me think the issue lies more with either the Ruby or the other
dependancies, and less with Shoes code itself.

Oh, and gem would be fine, but I'll still need to build Hackety packages....
but for just Shoes, I agree.

Re: [shoes] You guys are the best

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2010-12-31 @ 02:29
On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 09:20 -0500, Steve Klabnik wrote:
> The biggest question I have is why this works basically flawlessly on
> OSX (only one or two things...) yet bombs on Windows.
> 
> 
> It makes me think the issue lies more with either the Ruby or the
> other dependancies, and less with Shoes code itself.

That's why I suggest restoring the ability to create Shoes with 1.8.7.
Thread problems can be vicious to debug (if it is a thread problem). In
linux, running from the console, you get a Ruby thread dump. It would be
nice if there was someway to get Windows to capture that console output.

> 
> 
> Oh, and gem would be fine, but I'll still need to build Hackety
> packages.... but for just Shoes, I agree.

A gem is great for existing Ruby developers with their installed Ruby
and gems and IDE (or vim). Casual users and beginners would benefit from
a binary distribution, especially on Windows.

Re: [shoes] You guys are the best

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-12-30 @ 04:59
Hm. Yeah, I don't know. A lot of people are just getting plain crashes, it
won't even start. So I can't fix that through Hackety....

Maybe I should just try to help finish Green Shoes. ;)

Re: [shoes] You guys are the best

From:
ashbb
Date:
2010-12-30 @ 07:12
> A lot of people are just getting plain crashes, it won't even start.
I can't figure out what's behind it. But I suspect HH black opening window
which is using both mask and animate is one of criminals (not stable Shoes
functions).

Why not replace it with another simple opening? :-P

ashbb