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Captivated

Captivated

From:
Jenna Fox
Date:
2010-10-17 @ 13:08
Increasingly my imagination has been captivated by one thing. Adobe Air. You
foolish fools foolhardedly go and make your QT, GTK, and Java ports, and
then soon enough seem to struggle against flows and all that, while the
answer is right under your noses.

Have you all forgotten your first grade lesson on the Shoes Origin Story?

To recap: Shoes is a gooey framework which takes all the best bits of the
web, node, processing, and love, and merges them in to a glorious fusion of
wonderment and creative freedom! Shoes works like the web, but better.

The thing is, nowdays, the web works like the web works, but better. Adobe
Air 2 gives you all the wonderment of a 2D canvas, with all the layout power
of the very best CSS3 has to offer in a purely webkit environment! It does
this, with cross platform packaging, and most importantly, as of Adobe Air
2.0 - it includes a wonderful little API to let you run an executable
packaged right there in your air, sipping at it's STDIO, as if you were some
kind of silly terminal emulator!

What's that? Adobe Air can run ruby instances as if it supported popen? And
it runs on Macs, Windows, Linux, and Android phones, and has reliable quick
easy packaging, and fast graphics apis, along with powerful layouts which
work JUST LIKE SHOES?

Yes. Yes it does.

Captivated

From:
Jenna Fox
Date:
2010-10-17 @ 13:40
			Increasingly my imagination has been captivated by one thing. Adobe 
Air. You foolish fools foolhardedly go and make your QT, GTK, and Java 
ports, and then soon enough seem to struggle against flows and all that, 
while the answer is right under your noses.Have you all forgotten your 
first grade lesson on the Shoes Origin Story?To recap: Shoes is a gooey 
framework which takes all the best bits of the web, node, processing, and 
love, and merges them in to a glorious fusion of wonderment and creative 
freedom! Shoes works like the web, but better.The thing is, nowdays, the 
web works like the web, but better. Adobe Air 2 gives you all the 
wonderment of a 2D canvas, with all the layout power of the very best CSS3
has to offer in a purely webkit environment! It does this, with cross 
platform packaging, and most importantly, as of Adobe Air 2.0 - it 
includes a wonderful little API to let you run an executable packaged 
right there in your air, sipping at it's STDIO, as if you were some kind
 of silly terminal emulator!What's that? Adobe Air can run ruby instances 
as if it supported popen? And it runs on Macs, Windows, Linux, and Android
phones, and has reliable quick easy packaging, and fast graphics apis, 
along with powerful layouts which work JUST LIKE SHOES?Yes. Yes it does.

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2010-10-17 @ 14:26
I am personally interested in this option. For now it goes on the pile
of possibility that were developing.

Tell us more Jenna,  tell us more!
Fork the repo (blue_shoes is our WhiteShoes base right now), look
around, and give us some help in catching AIR on Ruby Shoes!!

Peter Fitzgibbons
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 17, 2010, at 8:40 AM, Jenna Fox <a@creativepony.com> wrote:

> Increasingly my imagination has been captivated by one thing. Adobe Air.
You foolish fools foolhardedly go and make your QT, GTK, and Java ports, 
and then soon enough seem to struggle against flows and all that, while 
the answer is right under your noses.
>
> Have you all forgotten your first grade lesson on the Shoes Origin Story?
>
> To recap: Shoes is a gooey framework which takes all the best bits of 
the web, node, processing, and love, and merges them in to a glorious 
fusion of wonderment and creative freedom! Shoes works like the web, but 
better.
>
> The thing is, nowdays, the web works like the web, but better. Adobe Air
2 gives you all the wonderment of a 2D canvas, with all the layout power 
of the very best CSS3 has to offer in a purely webkit environment! It does
this, with cross platform packaging, and most importantly, as of Adobe Air
2.0 - it includes a wonderful little API to let you run an e xecutabl e 
packaged right there in your air, sipping at it's STDIO, as if you were 
some kind of silly terminal emulator!
>
> What's that? Adobe Air can run ruby instances as if it supported popen? 
And it runs on Macs, Windows, Linux, and Android phones, and has reliable 
quick easy packaging, and fast graphics apis, along with powerful layouts 
which work JUST LIKE SHOES?
>
> Yes. Yes it does.

Re: Captivated

From:
Jenna Fox
Date:
2010-10-18 @ 15:19
        
        It'd just be a bridge - The shoes objects, like text flows, 
shapes, images, videos, would all map directly in to svg and html 
elements. It'd require little more than a Shoes-HTML adaptor, and 
something akin to DRB implemented in ruby and javascript, to bridge the 
objects between them through the ruby instances STDIO. JSON-RPC 1.0 and a 
simple proxy-object extension would be an easy way to accomplish that. An 
even easier way might be to have the html views act as a slave to ruby, 
running any javascript code to arrive from the ruby instance, and 
returning it's result (if any) in JSON form.I might have a play with the 
idea in months if I find myself with silly amounts of free time, but 
lately I've been too busy.Long live shoes!
        
        —Jenna / @Bluebie
		
		
        On Monday, 18 October 2010 at 1:26 AM, Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:
        
            I am personally interested in this option. For now it goes on 
the pileof possibility that were developing.Tell us more Jenna,  tell us 
more!Fork the repo (blue_shoes is our WhiteShoes base right now), 
lookaround, and give us some help in catching AIR on Ruby Shoes!!Peter 
FitzgibbonsSent from my iPhoneOn Oct 17, 2010, at 8:40 AM, Jenna Fox 
<a@creativepony.com> wrote: Increasingly my imagination has been 
captivated by one thing. Adobe Air. You foolish fools foolhardedly go and 
make your QT, GTK, and Java ports, and then soon enough seem to struggle 
against flows and all that, while the answer is right under your noses. 
Have you all forgotten your first grade lesson on the Shoes Origin Story? 
To recap: Shoes is a gooey framework which takes all the best bits of the 
web, node, processing, and love, and merges them in to a glorious fusion 
of wonderment and creative freedom! Shoes works like the web, but better. 
The thing is, nowdays, the web works like the web, but better. Ado
be Air 2 gives you all the wonderment of a 2D canvas, with all the layout 
power of the very best CSS3 has to offer in a purely webkit environment! 
It does this, with cross platform packaging, and most importantly, as of 
Adobe Air 2.0 - it includes a wonderful little API to let you run an e 
xecutabl e packaged right there in your air, sipping at it's STDIO, as if 
you were some kind of silly terminal emulator! What's that? Adobe Air can 
run ruby instances as if it supported popen? And it runs on Macs, Windows,
Linux, and Android phones, and has reliable quick easy packaging, and fast
graphics apis, along with powerful layouts which work JUST LIKE SHOES? 
Yes. Yes it does.
			
			
			
			
        
		
		
    

Re: [shoes] Re: Captivated

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-10-18 @ 15:22
I've had a few people ask me about "shoes on the web" before, so an
HTML backend would be pretty awesome....

Re: [shoes] Re: Captivated

From:
Rob Britton
Date:
2010-10-18 @ 15:24
Wouldn't Shoes on the web be a little redundant, since Shoes seems to
be designed to bring web-style development to a non-web app?

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:
> I've had a few people ask me about "shoes on the web" before, so an
> HTML backend would be pretty awesome....
>

Re: [shoes] Re: Captivated

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2010-10-19 @ 03:31
I vaguely remember someone did a Ruby irb in the browser. Probably the
Jruby folks. 

On Mon, 2010-10-18 at 11:24 -0400, Rob Britton wrote:
> Wouldn't Shoes on the web be a little redundant, since Shoes seems to
> be designed to bring web-style development to a non-web app?
> 
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:
> > I've had a few people ask me about "shoes on the web" before, so an
> > HTML backend would be pretty awesome....
> >

Re: [shoes] Re: Captivated

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-10-19 @ 03:52
That was actually why: http://tryruby.org/

Sophorinx (or however he spells it, I always get it wrong) maintains it now.
Source is on GitHub.
On Oct 18, 2010 11:31 PM, "Cecil Coupe" <ccoupe@cableone.net> wrote:
> I vaguely remember someone did a Ruby irb in the browser. Probably the
> Jruby folks.
>
> On Mon, 2010-10-18 at 11:24 -0400, Rob Britton wrote:
>> Wouldn't Shoes on the web be a little redundant, since Shoes seems to
>> be designed to bring web-style development to a non-web app?
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com>
wrote:
>> > I've had a few people ask me about "shoes on the web" before, so an
>> > HTML backend would be pretty awesome....
>> >
>
>

Re: [shoes] Re: Captivated

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-10-18 @ 15:52
In a way. I think what they were asking for is something like
"SproutCore as Shoes."

Which has nothing to do with Shoes, really... but would be interesting.

Re: [shoes] Re: Captivated

From:
Devyn Cairns
Date:
2010-10-18 @ 17:07
Indeed. Some sort of Shoes to JS compiler. Somewhat like Cappuccino, except
with Ruby and Shoes.

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com>wrote:

> In a way. I think what they were asking for is something like
> "SproutCore as Shoes."
>
> Which has nothing to do with Shoes, really... but would be interesting.
>



-- 
    ~devyn

Re: [shoes] Re: Captivated

From:
Zachary Scott
Date:
2010-10-18 @ 17:30
Have you guys seen ruby racer??

http://github.com/cowboyd/therubyracer

<http://github.com/cowboyd/therubyracer>I've been wanting to play with this
for a while!

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Devyn Cairns <devyn.cairns@gmail.com>wrote:

> Indeed. Some sort of Shoes to JS compiler. Somewhat like Cappuccino, except
> with Ruby and Shoes.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com>wrote:
>
>> In a way. I think what they were asking for is something like
>> "SproutCore as Shoes."
>>
>> Which has nothing to do with Shoes, really... but would be interesting.
>>
>
>
>
> --
>     ~devyn
>



-- 
Zachary Scott

http://zacharyscott.net/
http://twitter.com/hasmanytweets

Re: [shoes] Re: Captivated

From:
Devyn Cairns
Date:
2010-10-18 @ 17:41
Heh, that looks neat. Wouldn't really help with what I was thinking of,
though.

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Zachary Scott
<zachary.s.scott@gmail.com>wrote:

> Have you guys seen ruby racer??
>
> http://github.com/cowboyd/therubyracer
>
> <http://github.com/cowboyd/therubyracer>I've been wanting to play with
> this for a while!
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Devyn Cairns <devyn.cairns@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Indeed. Some sort of Shoes to JS compiler. Somewhat like Cappuccino,
>> except with Ruby and Shoes.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com>wrote:
>>
>>> In a way. I think what they were asking for is something like
>>> "SproutCore as Shoes."
>>>
>>> Which has nothing to do with Shoes, really... but would be interesting.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>     ~devyn
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Zachary Scott
>
> http://zacharyscott.net/
> http://twitter.com/hasmanytweets
>



-- 
    ~devyn

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-10-17 @ 15:07
I refuse to support Adobe Air for Shoes because it's proprietary.

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Devyn Cairns
Date:
2010-10-17 @ 17:10
I suppose that's reasonable. Shoes is completely open, though, so if someone
wants to make a White Shoes-compliant implementation on AIR, they're welcome
to.

On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com>wrote:

> I refuse to support Adobe Air for Shoes because it's proprietary.
>



-- 
    ~devyn

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-10-17 @ 17:30
> I suppose that's reasonable. Shoes is completely open, though, so if someone
> wants to make a White Shoes-compliant implementation on AIR, they're welcome
> to.


Absolutely. :)

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2010-10-17 @ 22:33
When I think about how well Adobe supports Flash on Linux, I'll pass on
building anything that requires Adobe products.

On Sun, 2010-10-17 at 11:07 -0400, Steve Klabnik wrote:
> I refuse to support Adobe Air for Shoes because it's proprietary.

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Devyn Cairns
Date:
2010-10-18 @ 03:17
That too.

On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Cecil Coupe <ccoupe@cableone.net> wrote:

> When I think about how well Adobe supports Flash on Linux, I'll pass on
> building anything that requires Adobe products.
>
> On Sun, 2010-10-17 at 11:07 -0400, Steve Klabnik wrote:
> > I refuse to support Adobe Air for Shoes because it's proprietary.
>
>
>


-- 
    ~devyn

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Jenna Fox
Date:
2010-10-20 @ 09:43
When was it announced that Shoes is abandoning support for Windows and Mac
OS X?

On 18 October 2010 02:07, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:

> I refuse to support Adobe Air for Shoes because it's proprietary.
>

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2010-10-20 @ 10:02
That was a bit of a cheeky response to our concern for _developing_ with
proprietary software.  ;)

Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:43 AM, Jenna Fox <a@creativepony.com> wrote:

> When was it announced that Shoes is abandoning support for Windows and Mac
> OS X?
>
>
> On 18 October 2010 02:07, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:
>
>> I refuse to support Adobe Air for Shoes because it's proprietary.
>>
>
>

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Jenna Fox
Date:
2010-10-20 @ 13:12
Cocoa and the Win32 APIs are both APIs for creating windows and native
controls, drawing graphics on to those surfaces, and receiving UI events.
They are proprietary in every sense.

Adobe AIR does the same thing, but is quite cross platform, and lays out
objects in a more shoes-like manner. It makes use of technologies more
familiar to many ruby developers, and substantial parts of it's API are
available in alternative implementations (javascript, w3c dom, css, html
layout, etc..)

Additionally Adobe AIR includes packager tools which are reliable on every
platform - something which has never been true of Shoes, but has always been
a goal.

If you could please explain how developing for several fully proprietary
platform specific APIs is better than developing for a cross platform and
partially standardised API, I'm certain I'd find that enlightening. :)

On 20 October 2010 21:02, Peter Fitzgibbons <peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com>wrote:

> That was a bit of a cheeky response to our concern for _developing_ with
> proprietary software.  ;)
>
> Peter Fitzgibbons
> (847) 859-9550
> Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
> IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:43 AM, Jenna Fox <a@creativepony.com> wrote:
>
>> When was it announced that Shoes is abandoning support for Windows and Mac
>> OS X?
>>
>>
>> On 18 October 2010 02:07, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I refuse to support Adobe Air for Shoes because it's proprietary.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2010-10-20 @ 14:03
Ahh, Jenna, you may have missed our "White Shoes" project, along with
Blue_Shoes/Green_Shoes/Brown_Shoes.

The fact is that our development efforts in the current-day are to switch
the code-base to use GTK or QT or Java/Swing(via JRuby).
As far as packaging, that is a task-level effort that the Shoes team is
tackling within the WhiteShoes project.

As Cecil Coupe noted : "When I think about how well Adobe supports Flash on
Linux, I'll pass on
building anything that requires Adobe products."

I freely admit that I have an Ubuntu 10.10 installed vm that I have not
built up any environment upon... so maybe I could give AIR a crack there if
you could point me to some useful "test apps".  Specific to our interests
are an app that would demonstrate graphical gymnastics, with drawing,
layering, color control, image rendering and control, etc, ... then a
"widget" app, that demonstrates the business side of Shoes... textboxes,
buttons, sliders, labels, etc.

Thoughts?

Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Jenna Fox <a@creativepony.com> wrote:

> Cocoa and the Win32 APIs are both APIs for creating windows and native
> controls, drawing graphics on to those surfaces, and receiving UI events.
> They are proprietary in every sense.
>
> Adobe AIR does the same thing, but is quite cross platform, and lays out
> objects in a more shoes-like manner. It makes use of technologies more
> familiar to many ruby developers, and substantial parts of it's API are
> available in alternative implementations (javascript, w3c dom, css, html
> layout, etc..)
>
> Additionally Adobe AIR includes packager tools which are reliable on every
> platform - something which has never been true of Shoes, but has always been
> a goal.
>
> If you could please explain how developing for several fully proprietary
> platform specific APIs is better than developing for a cross platform and
> partially standardised API, I'm certain I'd find that enlightening. :)
>
>
> On 20 October 2010 21:02, Peter Fitzgibbons <peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> That was a bit of a cheeky response to our concern for _developing_ with
>> proprietary software.  ;)
>>
>> Peter Fitzgibbons
>> (847) 859-9550
>> Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>> IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
>> IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:43 AM, Jenna Fox <a@creativepony.com> wrote:
>>
>>> When was it announced that Shoes is abandoning support for Windows and
>>> Mac OS X?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 October 2010 02:07, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I refuse to support Adobe Air for Shoes because it's proprietary.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Cecil Coupe
Date:
2010-10-20 @ 19:11
Please read the license for Adobe Air and 'products'. It's not
acceptable open source and hobbyists.

On Wed, 2010-10-20 at 09:03 -0500, Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:
> Ahh, Jenna, you may have missed our "White Shoes" project, along with
> Blue_Shoes/Green_Shoes/Brown_Shoes.
> 
> 
> The fact is that our development efforts in the current-day are to
> switch the code-base to use GTK or QT or Java/Swing(via JRuby).
> As far as packaging, that is a task-level effort that the Shoes team
> is tackling within the WhiteShoes project.
> 
> 
> As Cecil Coupe noted : "When I think about how well Adobe supports
> Flash on Linux, I'll pass on
> building anything that requires Adobe products."
> 
> 
> I freely admit that I have an Ubuntu 10.10 installed vm that I have
> not built up any environment upon... so maybe I could give AIR a crack
> there if you could point me to some useful "test apps".  Specific to
> our interests are an app that would demonstrate graphical gymnastics,
> with drawing, layering, color control, image rendering and control,
> etc, ... then a "widget" app, that demonstrates the business side of
> Shoes... textboxes, buttons, sliders, labels, etc.
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Peter Fitzgibbons
> (847) 859-9550
> Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
> IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Jenna Fox <a@creativepony.com> wrote:
>         Cocoa and the Win32 APIs are both APIs for creating windows
>         and native controls, drawing graphics on to those surfaces,
>         and receiving UI events. They are proprietary in every sense.
>         
>         
>         Adobe AIR does the same thing, but is quite cross platform,
>         and lays out objects in a more shoes-like manner. It makes use
>         of technologies more familiar to many ruby developers, and
>         substantial parts of it's API are available in alternative
>         implementations (javascript, w3c dom, css, html layout, etc..)
>         
>         
>         Additionally Adobe AIR includes packager tools which are
>         reliable on every platform - something which has never been
>         true of Shoes, but has always been a goal.
>         
>         
>         If you could please explain how developing for several fully
>         proprietary platform specific APIs is better than developing
>         for a cross platform and partially standardised API, I'm
>         certain I'd find that enlightening. :)
>         
>         
>         
>         On 20 October 2010 21:02, Peter Fitzgibbons
>         <peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com> wrote:
>                 That was a bit of a cheeky response to our concern for
>                 _developing_ with proprietary software.  ;)
>                 
>                 
>                 Peter Fitzgibbons
>                 (847) 859-9550
>                 Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>                 IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
>                 IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:43 AM, Jenna Fox
>                 <a@creativepony.com> wrote:
>                         When was it announced that Shoes is abandoning
>                         support for Windows and Mac OS X?
>                         
>                         
>                         
>                         On 18 October 2010 02:07, Steve Klabnik
>                         <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:
>                                 I refuse to support Adobe Air for
>                                 Shoes because it's proprietary.
>                         
>                         
>                 
>                 
>         
>         
> 
> 

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Devyn Cairns
Date:
2010-10-20 @ 22:26
Yes. It's very restrictive. That said, I think we'll probably be using a
very unrestrictive license for Shoes, so if someone wishes to make an AIR
version (so long as AIR's license doesn't interfere)—it's fine.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Cecil Coupe <ccoupe@cableone.net> wrote:

> Please read the license for Adobe Air and 'products'. It's not
> acceptable open source and hobbyists.
>
> On Wed, 2010-10-20 at 09:03 -0500, Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:
> > Ahh, Jenna, you may have missed our "White Shoes" project, along with
> > Blue_Shoes/Green_Shoes/Brown_Shoes.
> >
> >
> > The fact is that our development efforts in the current-day are to
> > switch the code-base to use GTK or QT or Java/Swing(via JRuby).
> > As far as packaging, that is a task-level effort that the Shoes team
> > is tackling within the WhiteShoes project.
> >
> >
> > As Cecil Coupe noted : "When I think about how well Adobe supports
> > Flash on Linux, I'll pass on
> > building anything that requires Adobe products."
> >
> >
> > I freely admit that I have an Ubuntu 10.10 installed vm that I have
> > not built up any environment upon... so maybe I could give AIR a crack
> > there if you could point me to some useful "test apps".  Specific to
> > our interests are an app that would demonstrate graphical gymnastics,
> > with drawing, layering, color control, image rendering and control,
> > etc, ... then a "widget" app, that demonstrates the business side of
> > Shoes... textboxes, buttons, sliders, labels, etc.
> >
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Peter Fitzgibbons
> > (847) 859-9550
> > Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> > IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
> > IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Jenna Fox <a@creativepony.com> wrote:
> >         Cocoa and the Win32 APIs are both APIs for creating windows
> >         and native controls, drawing graphics on to those surfaces,
> >         and receiving UI events. They are proprietary in every sense.
> >
> >
> >         Adobe AIR does the same thing, but is quite cross platform,
> >         and lays out objects in a more shoes-like manner. It makes use
> >         of technologies more familiar to many ruby developers, and
> >         substantial parts of it's API are available in alternative
> >         implementations (javascript, w3c dom, css, html layout, etc..)
> >
> >
> >         Additionally Adobe AIR includes packager tools which are
> >         reliable on every platform - something which has never been
> >         true of Shoes, but has always been a goal.
> >
> >
> >         If you could please explain how developing for several fully
> >         proprietary platform specific APIs is better than developing
> >         for a cross platform and partially standardised API, I'm
> >         certain I'd find that enlightening. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >         On 20 October 2010 21:02, Peter Fitzgibbons
> >         <peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com> wrote:
> >                 That was a bit of a cheeky response to our concern for
> >                 _developing_ with proprietary software.  ;)
> >
> >
> >                 Peter Fitzgibbons
> >                 (847) 859-9550
> >                 Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> >                 IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
> >                 IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                 On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:43 AM, Jenna Fox
> >                 <a@creativepony.com> wrote:
> >                         When was it announced that Shoes is abandoning
> >                         support for Windows and Mac OS X?
> >
> >
> >
> >                         On 18 October 2010 02:07, Steve Klabnik
> >                         <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:
> >                                 I refuse to support Adobe Air for
> >                                 Shoes because it's proprietary.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


-- 
    ~devyn

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2010-10-22 @ 10:21
So, Jenna (really?),

I just googled "ruby adobe air" and came up sorta short on useful AIR+Ruby
resources.  Everything I saw was Rails-centric.

Could you point me to a good tutorial on building AIR+Ruby desktop ?

Thanks,

Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Devyn Cairns <devyn.cairns@gmail.com>wrote:

> Yes. It's very restrictive. That said, I think we'll probably be using a
> very unrestrictive license for Shoes, so if someone wishes to make an AIR
> version (so long as AIR's license doesn't interfere)—it's fine.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Cecil Coupe <ccoupe@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Please read the license for Adobe Air and 'products'. It's not
>> acceptable open source and hobbyists.
>>
>> On Wed, 2010-10-20 at 09:03 -0500, Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:
>> > Ahh, Jenna, you may have missed our "White Shoes" project, along with
>> > Blue_Shoes/Green_Shoes/Brown_Shoes.
>> >
>> >
>> > The fact is that our development efforts in the current-day are to
>> > switch the code-base to use GTK or QT or Java/Swing(via JRuby).
>> > As far as packaging, that is a task-level effort that the Shoes team
>> > is tackling within the WhiteShoes project.
>> >
>> >
>> > As Cecil Coupe noted : "When I think about how well Adobe supports
>> > Flash on Linux, I'll pass on
>> > building anything that requires Adobe products."
>> >
>> >
>> > I freely admit that I have an Ubuntu 10.10 installed vm that I have
>> > not built up any environment upon... so maybe I could give AIR a crack
>> > there if you could point me to some useful "test apps".  Specific to
>> > our interests are an app that would demonstrate graphical gymnastics,
>> > with drawing, layering, color control, image rendering and control,
>> > etc, ... then a "widget" app, that demonstrates the business side of
>> > Shoes... textboxes, buttons, sliders, labels, etc.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thoughts?
>> >
>> > Peter Fitzgibbons
>> > (847) 859-9550
>> > Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>> > IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
>> > IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Jenna Fox <a@creativepony.com> wrote:
>> >         Cocoa and the Win32 APIs are both APIs for creating windows
>> >         and native controls, drawing graphics on to those surfaces,
>> >         and receiving UI events. They are proprietary in every sense.
>> >
>> >
>> >         Adobe AIR does the same thing, but is quite cross platform,
>> >         and lays out objects in a more shoes-like manner. It makes use
>> >         of technologies more familiar to many ruby developers, and
>> >         substantial parts of it's API are available in alternative
>> >         implementations (javascript, w3c dom, css, html layout, etc..)
>> >
>> >
>> >         Additionally Adobe AIR includes packager tools which are
>> >         reliable on every platform - something which has never been
>> >         true of Shoes, but has always been a goal.
>> >
>> >
>> >         If you could please explain how developing for several fully
>> >         proprietary platform specific APIs is better than developing
>> >         for a cross platform and partially standardised API, I'm
>> >         certain I'd find that enlightening. :)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >         On 20 October 2010 21:02, Peter Fitzgibbons
>> >         <peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >                 That was a bit of a cheeky response to our concern for
>> >                 _developing_ with proprietary software.  ;)
>> >
>> >
>> >                 Peter Fitzgibbons
>> >                 (847) 859-9550
>> >                 Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>> >                 IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
>> >                 IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >                 On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:43 AM, Jenna Fox
>> >                 <a@creativepony.com> wrote:
>> >                         When was it announced that Shoes is abandoning
>> >                         support for Windows and Mac OS X?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >                         On 18 October 2010 02:07, Steve Klabnik
>> >                         <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:
>> >                                 I refuse to support Adobe Air for
>> >                                 Shoes because it's proprietary.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>     ~devyn
>

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
Devyn Cairns
Date:
2010-10-20 @ 16:46
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Peter Fitzgibbons <
peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ahh, Jenna, you may have missed our "White Shoes" project, along with
> Blue_Shoes/Green_Shoes/Brown_Shoes.
>
> The fact is that our development efforts in the current-day are to switch
> the code-base to use GTK or QT or Java/Swing(via JRuby).
> As far as packaging, that is a task-level effort that the Shoes team is
> tackling within the WhiteShoes project.
>

And really, anything else. White Shoes-based forks are encouraged.


>
> As Cecil Coupe noted : "When I think about how well Adobe supports Flash
> on Linux, I'll pass on
>
> building anything that requires Adobe products."
>
> I freely admit that I have an Ubuntu 10.10 installed vm that I have not
> built up any environment upon... so maybe I could give AIR a crack there if
> you could point me to some useful "test apps".  Specific to our interests
> are an app that would demonstrate graphical gymnastics, with drawing,
> layering, color control, image rendering and control, etc, ... then a
> "widget" app, that demonstrates the business side of Shoes... textboxes,
> buttons, sliders, labels, etc.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Peter Fitzgibbons
> (847) 859-9550
> Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
> IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
> IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Jenna Fox <a@creativepony.com> wrote:
>
>> Cocoa and the Win32 APIs are both APIs for creating windows and native
>> controls, drawing graphics on to those surfaces, and receiving UI events.
>> They are proprietary in every sense.
>>
>> Adobe AIR does the same thing, but is quite cross platform, and lays out
>> objects in a more shoes-like manner. It makes use of technologies more
>> familiar to many ruby developers, and substantial parts of it's API are
>> available in alternative implementations (javascript, w3c dom, css, html
>> layout, etc..)
>>
>> Additionally Adobe AIR includes packager tools which are reliable on every
>> platform - something which has never been true of Shoes, but has always been
>> a goal.
>>
>> If you could please explain how developing for several fully proprietary
>> platform specific APIs is better than developing for a cross platform and
>> partially standardised API, I'm certain I'd find that enlightening. :)
>>
>>
>> On 20 October 2010 21:02, Peter Fitzgibbons <peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> That was a bit of a cheeky response to our concern for _developing_ with
>>> proprietary software.  ;)
>>>
>>> Peter Fitzgibbons
>>> (847) 859-9550
>>> Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>>> IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
>>> IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:43 AM, Jenna Fox <a@creativepony.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When was it announced that Shoes is abandoning support for Windows and
>>>> Mac OS X?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 18 October 2010 02:07, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I refuse to support Adobe Air for Shoes because it's proprietary.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>


-- 
    ~devyn

Re: [shoes] Captivated

From:
ashbb
Date:
2010-10-20 @ 14:08
Hi Jenna,

Awesome! I'd love to see your Air Shoes. Feel free to create whatever you
want. :-D

Let's have fun with colorful Shoes!

Cheers,
ashbb