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Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 07:45
Yes, indeed !

I'm writing such a book since a few years (in French !) : Initiation à la 
programmation à objets - Exemples en langage Eiffel. This work was 
commissionned by a little French publisher, but I recently decided to 
denounce the contract and to publish it, if possible, with a free licence.
Programs are written with SmartEiffel and I have in mind beginners when I 
wrote it. It's a draft. I can submit you some chapters (once more time : 
*in French*, sorry). If the Liberty Eiffel community is interested to work
on it, I will be happy to give it.

Regards,

Christophe

----- Mail original -----
De: "Paolo Redaelli" <paolo.redaelli@gmail.com>
À: libertyeiffel@librelist.com
Envoyé: Mardi 27 Septembre 2011 09:11:59
Objet: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

Meyer created Eiffel alongside with his book Object Oriented Software
Construction, "Eiffel 2" got OOSC 2nd edition, then they glorified it
with ECMA Eiffel which ISE has almost finished to implement after five
years.
LibertyEiffel strive to keep the language clean and powerful, yet the
changes of the last 5 years have no "book-like" documentation. Oh we
have Liberty's wiki, the old SE wiki, the compiler source, tutorials and
the existing codebase but I think that all those documentations will not
likely attract further users.
Do you think it may be useful to have a "Programming with Liberty" book
written following the trail of OOSC?

Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 08:48
----- Mail original -----
De: "Paolo Redaelli" <paolo.redaelli@gmail.com>

Have you ever read Meyer's "Object oriented software construction"?

It's my "livre de chevet".  I read it many times, but it is not a book for
beginners : too difficult.

I think we shall translate your work because it seems precious to me: 
raising students in the good school of Eiffel is a sure way to form good 
programmers and to widen Eiffel community.

Ok ! Thanks

Would you like to read a chapter (draft) ?

Christophe

Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Paolo Redaelli
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 09:01
Il 27/09/2011 10:48, christophe.haro@free.fr ha scritto:
> Would you like to read a chapter (draft) ?
Please feel free to mail it. I'll try to read it: I actually do not know 
french but Google translate is a nice tool and Meneghino (the local 
language of people living in Milan and hinterland) is actually more 
similar to French than to Italian....


 
 
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Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Cyril Adrian
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 09:00
2011/9/27 <christophe.haro@free.fr>

> Would you like to read a chapter (draft) ?
>

sure :-)

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Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Cyril Adrian
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 08:02
Hi Christophe,

2011/9/27 <christophe.haro@free.fr>

> I'm writing such a book since a few years (in French !) : Initiation à la
> programmation à objets - Exemples en langage Eiffel. This work was
> commissionned by a little French publisher, but I recently decided to
> denounce the contract and to publish it, if possible, with a free licence.
> Programs are written with SmartEiffel and I have in mind beginners when I
> wrote it. It's a draft. I can submit you some chapters (once more time : *in
> French*, sorry). If the Liberty Eiffel community is interested to work on
> it, I will be happy to give it.
>

Do you plan to translate it? Do you need help (translation, review…)?

The "community" is tiny (currently the only active members are Paolo and me)
and we have our hands quite full… Feel free to participate :-)

Cheers,

*Cyril ADRIAN
**(from office)*
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Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Paolo Redaelli
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 08:23
Il 27/09/2011 10:02, Cyril ADRIAN ha scritto:
> Hi Christophe,
>
> 2011/9/27 <christophe.haro@free.fr <mailto:christophe.haro@free.fr>>
>
>     I'm writing such a book since a few years (in French !) :
>     Initiation à la programmation à objets - Exemples en langage
>     Eiffel. This work was commissionned by a little French publisher,
>     but I recently decided to denounce the contract and to publish it,
>     if possible, with a free licence. Programs are written with
>     SmartEiffel and I have in mind beginners when I wrote it. It's a
>     draft. I can submit you some chapters (once more time : *in
>     French*, sorry). If the Liberty Eiffel community is interested to
>     work on it, I will be happy to give it.
>
>
> Do you plan to translate it? Do you need help (translation, review…)?
>
> The "community" is tiny (currently the only active members are Paolo 
> and me) and we have our hands quite full… Feel free to participate :-)
>
Time to create a repository for the book(s). Do you like "Learn 
programming (with Liberty)" for beginners/children and "Software 
construction with Liberty" for professional?

> 2011/9/27 Paolo Redaelli <paolo.redaelli@gmail.com 
> <mailto:paolo.redaelli@gmail.com>>
>
>     Do you think it may be useful to have a "Programming with Liberty"
>     book
>     written following the trail of OOSC?
>
>
> Yes, I do. I started something some (long) time ago, but I discovered 
> I really am a poor writer :-/
>
So it's time to create another repository. I once thought about two 
manuals, one targeting beginners like Christophe's one, the other for 
professional programmers.

Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 10:18
Here it is ;-)

Chapter 5 and a supplementary material. Too big to be attached. You can 
download it at :

           http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CG91GGYW

CH

----- Mail original ----

Would you like to read a chapter (draft) ? 

sure :-) 

Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 11:54
Some difficulties to send this mail. Sorry !


Here it is ;-)

Chapter 5 and a supplementary material. Too big to be attached. You can 
download it at :

           http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CG91GGYW

CH

----- Mail original ----

Would you like to read a chapter (draft) ? 

sure :-) 

Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Cyril Adrian
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 12:05
No problem… I could download it. I'll read it later.

Cheers

2011/9/27 <christophe.haro@free.fr>

> Some difficulties to send this mail. Sorry !
>
>
> Here it is ;-)
>
> Chapter 5 and a supplementary material. Too big to be attached. You can
> download it at :
>
>           http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CG91GGYW
>
> CH
>
> ----- Mail original ----
>
> Would you like to read a chapter (draft) ?
>
> sure :-)
>
>

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Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Paolo Redaelli
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 12:09
I hadve already downloaded it...

Il 27/09/2011 14:05, Cyril ADRIAN ha scritto:
> No problem… I could download it. I'll read it later.

Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 08:22
Hi all, Hi Cyril,

Yes, I need help :
  1) to translate it in English : my English is too poor to do that job 
but translation seems to be essential ;
  2) to review carefully and to adapt it to the new objective of the book.
I have in mind my students when I wrote it. The objective was not strictly
Eiffel, but OOP.

Christophe



----- Mail original -----
De: "Cyril ADRIAN" <cyril.adrian@gmail.com>
À: libertyeiffel@librelist.com
Envoyé: Mardi 27 Septembre 2011 10:02:30
Objet: Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

Hi Christophe,


2011/9/27 < christophe.haro@free.fr >


I'm writing such a book since a few years (in French !) : Initiation à la 
programmation à objets - Exemples en langage Eiffel. This work was 
commissionned by a little French publisher, but I recently decided to 
denounce the contract and to publish it, if possible, with a free licence.
Programs are written with SmartEiffel and I have in mind beginners when I 
wrote it. It's a draft. I can submit you some chapters (once more time : 
*in French*, sorry). If the Liberty Eiffel community is interested to work
on it, I will be happy to give it.



Do you plan to translate it? Do you need help (translation, review…)?


The "community" is tiny (currently the only active members are Paolo and 
me) and we have our hands quite full… Feel free to participate :-)

Cheers,







Cyril A DRIAN
(from office)
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Contact me: Google Talkcyril.adrian@gmail.com

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Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Cyril Adrian
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 08:59
2011/9/27 <christophe.haro@free.fr>

> Yes, I need help :
>  1) to translate it in English : my English is too poor to do that job but
> translation seems to be essential ;
>

I may help a bit here, although it will have to be reviewed by a native
speaker


>  2) to review carefully and to adapt it to the new objective of the book.
>

Here I'm afraid I won't help a lot, maybe throwing an idea or two but that's
all.


> I have in mind my students when I wrote it. The objective was not strictly
> Eiffel, but OOP.
>

It's a start, and a good one. It's what we need right now to attract people,
with a preference to some "fresh blood" that have no preconceptions from
either C++, Java, or Python…

Extending it to include an Eiffel reference (language, libraries, patterns)
can be done later.

Let's do things by small increments. I burned myself with the first Liberty
try (although I learned a lot), I'd like to be sure that Liberty succeeds
someday… but not necessarily tomorrow :-)



Cheers,

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Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Paolo Redaelli
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 09:26
Il 27/09/2011 10:59, Cyril ADRIAN ha scritto:
>
>
> 2011/9/27 <christophe.haro@free.fr <mailto:christophe.haro@free.fr>>
>
>     Yes, I need help :
>      1) to translate it in English : my English is too poor to do that
>     job but translation seems to be essential ;
>
>
> I may help a bit here, although it will have to be reviewed by a 
> native speaker
>
We may ask Oliver Elphick (http://lfix.co.uk/oliver/)

 
 
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Re: [libertyeiffel] Do we need a book?

From:
Paolo Redaelli
Date:
2011-09-27 @ 08:28
Il 27/09/2011 10:22, christophe.haro@free.fr ha scritto:
> Hi all, Hi Cyril,
>
> Yes, I need help :
>    1) to translate it in English : my English is too poor to do that job
but translation seems to be essential ;
>    2) to review carefully and to adapt it to the new objective of the book.
> I have in mind my students when I wrote it. The objective was not 
strictly Eiffel, but OOP.
Have you ever read Meyer's "Object oriented software construction"? In 
it he teach programming, discuss how to write good one, why some 
constructs are better than others; he explains all the design 
considerations that produced Eiffel without ever telling the reader his 
pseudo-code is actually valid Eiffel code. Only in the last page/chapter 
he tell the reader that the syntax that were so easy to read and useful 
to understand was actually a real programming language, i.e. Eiffel....
I think we shall translate your work because it seems precious to me: 
raising students in the good school of Eiffel is a sure way to form good 
programmers and to widen Eiffel community.