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Hackety 1.0 release timeline

Hackety 1.0 release timeline

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-10-03 @ 19:09
Hey guys-

I've come to the conclusion that an all-ruby Shoes port needs to happen
before I can release Hackety Hack 1.0. I really like the code for Hackety,
but there are just too many bugs and problems with Shoes for me to consider
it actually stable. Normally, that'd be cool, but especially with a project
like Hackety, it's really important that things Just Work. There'd be
nothing worse for a beginner than to have strange bugs and issues crop up.

That said, it seems that currently, "Green Shoes" is the best all-ruby Shoes
port so far. So I'm putting hold on qtshoes to get Green Shoes up to snuff.
We've got three people working on it fairly regularly, so I'm pretty
confidant it'll go fairly quickly. Also, I've got increased availability of
late and looking forward, and so that should help out a lot.

Does anyone have any serious objections to this? I really hate to push the
release back, but Shoes just has too many problems. This seems to me like
the best way to get a stable, good Shoes out the door.

-Steve

Re: Hackety 1.0 release timeline

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-10-04 @ 03:45
Actually, Bluebie has brought to my attention that gtk on mac requires X11.
This is a dealbreaker. So I'll be changing "Green shoes" to the newly
christened "Blue Shoes," formerly known as qtshoes.

Other than that, everything else stands.

Re: [hacketyhack] Re: Hackety 1.0 release timeline

From:
ashbb
Date:
2010-10-04 @ 13:20
Hi Steve et al,

> I've come to the conclusion that an all-ruby Shoes port needs to
> happen before I can release Hackety Hack 1.0.
Oh,... umm...
I'm not sure an all-ruby Shoes solves all your problems.
Because I need more study, and more and more study for growing Green Shoes
up to the same level as (Red) Shoes. But,...

> newly christened "Blue Shoes," formerly known as qtshoes.
Yeah, fantastic!
Let's enjoy colorful Shoes! :-D

ashbb

Re: [hacketyhack] Re: Hackety 1.0 release timeline

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2010-10-04 @ 14:17
Blue Shoes.  Can I call our first release "Suede" ? :-)

How does Jruby play into this?  Packaging is a "question", though I believe
there are options that ultimately make a .jar/war available for all comers
without any other intervention.

Thoughts?

Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 8:20 AM, ashbb <ashbbb@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steve et al,
>
>
> > I've come to the conclusion that an all-ruby Shoes port needs to
> > happen before I can release Hackety Hack 1.0.
> Oh,... umm...
> I'm not sure an all-ruby Shoes solves all your problems.
> Because I need more study, and more and more study for growing Green Shoes
> up to the same level as (Red) Shoes. But,...
>
>
> > newly christened "Blue Shoes," formerly known as qtshoes.
> Yeah, fantastic!
> Let's enjoy colorful Shoes! :-D
>
> ashbb
>

Re: [hacketyhack] Re: Hackety 1.0 release timeline

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-10-04 @ 14:55
>
> Blue Shoes.  Can I call our first release "Suede" ? :-)


Done. :)


> How does Jruby play into this? Thoughts?
>

Honestly, I absolutely abhor and detest Java. And while the JVM != Java, I'd
only use it as a last resort. Swing is pretty effing ugly. I think that QT
has the best balance of everything: 'real' Ruby, native on all platforms.

Re: [hacketyhack] Re: Hackety 1.0 release timeline

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2010-10-04 @ 15:09
Ok.  I have two thoughts.

Java is also != Jruby.  The beauty of it is we get the advanced (read:
production-ready) Java libs "for free" to use in Jruby.  I have had issues
reading the Java docs to figure out _how_ to call a function, but the Jruby
interop wrapper really smoothes out the look-feel of the code.

Java has clean packaging.  Going back to this again.  Building a .war (via
Warbler maybe?) is really not all that difficult.  I'm probably glossing
over some evil complex startup method in my nievete, but seriously,
downloading a .war and double-clicking would be freakin awesome... and
available on 90% of the end-users automatically.   Also, everyone trusts
Java, so no matter what is "inside" the box, if its Java, its "OK".

This opens the question, is the Java/QT lib up to snuff, easy enough to use,
etc?

As far as performance, the lastest rev of Jruby has made a "stunning" leap
in performance.  I admit to have not tested this personally yet.

I guess in the end, JRuby can be considered an "alternative" if packaging
the MRI/QT app is just too painful.

Thoughts?

Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com>wrote:

> Blue Shoes.  Can I call our first release "Suede" ? :-)
>
>
> Done. :)
>
>
>> How does Jruby play into this? Thoughts?
>>
>
> Honestly, I absolutely abhor and detest Java. And while the JVM != Java,
> I'd only use it as a last resort. Swing is pretty effing ugly. I think that
> QT has the best balance of everything: 'real' Ruby, native on all platforms.
>

Re: [hacketyhack] Re: Hackety 1.0 release timeline

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-10-04 @ 15:27
>
> Java is also != Jruby.
>

You are absolutely right. Jruby is pretty awesome.


>  The beauty of it is we get the advanced (read: production-ready) Java libs
> "for free" to use in Jruby.  I have had issues reading the Java docs to
> figure out _how_ to call a function, but the Jruby interop wrapper really
> smoothes out the look-feel of the code.
>

Java libraries are often over-engineered and bloated. I won't deny they
can't be useful, but Ruby also has quite the large community of libraries
available. I've never wanted for any particular Java lib from Ruby.



> Java has clean packaging.  Going back to this again.  Building a .war (via
> Warbler maybe?) is really not all that difficult.  I'm probably glossing
> over some evil complex startup method in my nievete, but seriously,
> downloading a .war and double-clicking would be freakin awesome... and
> available on 90% of the end-users automatically.   Also, everyone trusts
> Java, so no matter what is "inside" the box, if its Java, its "OK".
>

Ideally, we get an .exe on windows, a package in Ubuntu, and a .App on the
Mac. I looked into this before, and it wasn't too bad to package up QtRuby
apps, though I can't find the manual from before.


> This opens the question, is the Java/QT lib up to snuff, easy enough to
> use, etc?
>

The QT libs are just a straight wrapper over QT. So, it's pretty
straightforward. You can look up help for anything involving QT and change
the name just slightly, QTimer -> Qt::Timer, for example, and functionNames
to function_names.

I'm not as familiar with JRuby's Swing.


> I guess in the end, JRuby can be considered an "alternative" if packaging
> the MRI/QT app is just too painful.
>

Totally. If JRuby Shoes existed tomorrow, I'd release Hackety via it.
Getting something out is more important. But if I'm going to put a bunch of
my time into something, I'd rather it be something that I enjoy. But yeah,
the end result is what's most important: a stable Shoes.

Re: [hacketyhack] Re: Hackety 1.0 release timeline

From:
Peter Fitzgibbons
Date:
2010-10-04 @ 16:21
So, after a tangent, back to my question of Issue List.
Remind me where the who/what/where is for qt-shoes?

Peter Fitzgibbons
(847) 859-9550
Email: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com
IM GTalk: peter.fitzgibbons
IM AOL: peter.fitzgibbons@gmail.com


On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com>wrote:

> Java is also != Jruby.
>>
>
> You are absolutely right. Jruby is pretty awesome.
>
>
>>  The beauty of it is we get the advanced (read: production-ready) Java
>> libs "for free" to use in Jruby.  I have had issues reading the Java docs to
>> figure out _how_ to call a function, but the Jruby interop wrapper really
>> smoothes out the look-feel of the code.
>>
>
> Java libraries are often over-engineered and bloated. I won't deny they
> can't be useful, but Ruby also has quite the large community of libraries
> available. I've never wanted for any particular Java lib from Ruby.
>
>
>
>> Java has clean packaging.  Going back to this again.  Building a .war (via
>> Warbler maybe?) is really not all that difficult.  I'm probably glossing
>> over some evil complex startup method in my nievete, but seriously,
>> downloading a .war and double-clicking would be freakin awesome... and
>> available on 90% of the end-users automatically.   Also, everyone trusts
>> Java, so no matter what is "inside" the box, if its Java, its "OK".
>>
>
> Ideally, we get an .exe on windows, a package in Ubuntu, and a .App on the
> Mac. I looked into this before, and it wasn't too bad to package up QtRuby
> apps, though I can't find the manual from before.
>
>
>> This opens the question, is the Java/QT lib up to snuff, easy enough to
>> use, etc?
>>
>
> The QT libs are just a straight wrapper over QT. So, it's pretty
> straightforward. You can look up help for anything involving QT and change
> the name just slightly, QTimer -> Qt::Timer, for example, and functionNames
> to function_names.
>
> I'm not as familiar with JRuby's Swing.
>
>
>> I guess in the end, JRuby can be considered an "alternative" if packaging
>> the MRI/QT app is just too painful.
>>
>
> Totally. If JRuby Shoes existed tomorrow, I'd release Hackety via it.
> Getting something out is more important. But if I'm going to put a bunch of
> my time into something, I'd rather it be something that I enjoy. But yeah,
> the end result is what's most important: a stable Shoes.
>

Re: [hacketyhack] Re: Hackety 1.0 release timeline

From:
Steve Klabnik
Date:
2010-10-04 @ 16:24
Give me just a few minutes, and I'll have some stuff up.