Hey everyone, I have been doing some research into using a cross platform tool to develop an app for iPhone/Android/Blackberry. I landed on the two obvious choices Appcelerator Titanium and PhoneGap. All feature requirements for the project can be implemented by both platforms in one way or another. One thing that is relatively important is for the app to be reasonably responsiveness. PhoneGap wins in the crossplatform-ness vs Appcelerator BUT, when I tried some of the sample apps/demos of PhoneGap + JQM it was terribly slow in responsiveness (~700ms response time). I have read that JQM is horribly slow and that disabling transition effects helps, but is it enough? Should I even bother with JQuery Mobile or anyther JS Mobile framework (is Sensa Touch, XUI, etc.) or are they all slow? Can I get around this problem by writing my own UI code from scratch (which is more work I would like to avoid)? Or am I stuck with Appcelerator Titanium to get the responsiveness I want? Thanks, Marc Meszaros
I travelling right now but I'd be happy to help out when I get back to Ottawa. I know folks who've built PhoneGap apps using jQuery so I'm sure it is something we can clear up. My general advice to you is to not give up on frameworks. They will help you out a lot in the long run. Simon Mac Donald http://hi.im/simonmacdonald On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey everyone, > I have been doing some research into using a cross platform tool to develop > an app for iPhone/Android/Blackberry. I landed on the two obvious choices > Appcelerator Titanium and PhoneGap. All feature requirements for the project > can be implemented by both platforms in one way or another. > One thing that is relatively important is for the app to be reasonably > responsiveness. PhoneGap wins in the crossplatform-ness vs Appcelerator BUT, > when I tried some of the sample apps/demos of PhoneGap + JQM it was terribly > slow in responsiveness (~700ms response time). I have read that JQM is > horribly slow and that disabling transition effects helps, but is it enough? > Should I even bother with JQuery Mobile or anyther JS Mobile framework (is > Sensa Touch, XUI, etc.) or are they all slow? Can I get around this problem > by writing my own UI code from scratch (which is more work I would like to > avoid)? Or am I stuck with Appcelerator Titanium to get the responsiveness I > want? > > Thanks, > Marc Meszaros >
You should come out to the DROIDHACK that's going on this weekend (I believe). I can help you out with any issues you're having if you'd like :) On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Simon MacDonald <simon.macdonald@gmail.com>wrote: > I travelling right now but I'd be happy to help out when I get back to > Ottawa. I know folks who've built PhoneGap apps using jQuery so I'm > sure it is something we can clear up. My general advice to you is to > not give up on frameworks. They will help you out a lot in the long > run. > > Simon Mac Donald > http://hi.im/simonmacdonald > > > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I have been doing some research into using a cross platform tool to > develop > > an app for iPhone/Android/Blackberry. I landed on the two obvious choices > > Appcelerator Titanium and PhoneGap. All feature requirements for the > project > > can be implemented by both platforms in one way or another. > > One thing that is relatively important is for the app to be reasonably > > responsiveness. PhoneGap wins in the crossplatform-ness vs Appcelerator > BUT, > > when I tried some of the sample apps/demos of PhoneGap + JQM it was > terribly > > slow in responsiveness (~700ms response time). I have read that JQM is > > horribly slow and that disabling transition effects helps, but is it > enough? > > Should I even bother with JQuery Mobile or anyther JS Mobile framework > (is > > Sensa Touch, XUI, etc.) or are they all slow? Can I get around this > problem > > by writing my own UI code from scratch (which is more work I would like > to > > avoid)? Or am I stuck with Appcelerator Titanium to get the > responsiveness I > > want? > > > > Thanks, > > Marc Meszaros > > > -- Christopher Saunders http://christophersaunders.ca/
Hey Marc, I've used JQM to build the Shopify Mobile web application and from experience I can tell you that it's a smidge terrible. Our responsiveness was pretty bad, so we removed a lot of what they had (excessive gradients seemed to cause lots of issues) to make the app a lot more responsive. I'd avoid sencha too since it's pretty heavy and I've found their documentation to be quite absent. I'm building a new application using XUI since it's really light and has most of the features I'd want from a library like jQuery (no transitions yet) and am pretty happy with the results so far. Most of the work I've been doing has been creating DOM nodes manually when I need to and glueing them in the proper locations. I'd say still go with a JS framework, just expect that you'll need to do a bit more work when it comes to layout and stuff. -- Chris On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com>wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I have been doing some research into using a cross platform tool to > develop an app for iPhone/Android/Blackberry. I landed on the two obvious > choices Appcelerator Titanium and PhoneGap. All feature requirements for > the project can be implemented by both platforms in one way or another. > > One thing that is relatively important is for the app to be reasonably > responsiveness. PhoneGap wins in the crossplatform-ness vs Appcelerator > BUT, when I tried some of the sample apps/demos of PhoneGap + JQM it was > terribly slow in responsiveness (~700ms response time). I have read that > JQM is horribly slow and that disabling transition effects helps, but is it > enough? > > Should I even bother with JQuery Mobile or anyther JS Mobile framework (is > Sensa Touch, XUI, etc.) or are they all slow? Can I get around this problem > by writing my own UI code from scratch (which is more work I would like to > avoid)? Or am I stuck with Appcelerator Titanium to get the responsiveness > I want? > > Thanks, > > Marc Meszaros > -- Christopher Saunders http://christophersaunders.ca/
I've had good luck with Sencha Touch, the resulting app is definitely slower than a native UI but decent on an iPhone 4 and acceptable on a moderately recent android phone. I have yet to get it working to any great degree in webworks on a blackberry phone. The Sencha stuff does have some good documentation but they are light on explaining how to architect a project ... there seems to be several different ways to do it and no clear explanation of which approach you should use. They also just released 2.0 developer preview, it is quite a bit lighter feeling and produces a more responsive UI. I'm not a sencha fanboy, in fact I wrote an alternate js ui framework (jxlib) just so that I didn't have to use ExtJS :) But I haven't found anything better for mobile yet. I definitely wasn't very impressed with jquery mobile. However, I will take a look at xui! Cheers Paul On 2011-11-01, at 1:57 PM, Christopher Saunders wrote: > Hey Marc, > > I've used JQM to build the Shopify Mobile web application and from experience I can tell you that it's a smidge terrible. Our responsiveness was pretty bad, so we removed a lot of what they had (excessive gradients seemed to cause lots of issues) to make the app a lot more responsive. I'd avoid sencha too since it's pretty heavy and I've found their documentation to be quite absent. > > I'm building a new application using XUI since it's really light and has most of the features I'd want from a library like jQuery (no transitions yet) and am pretty happy with the results so far. Most of the work I've been doing has been creating DOM nodes manually when I need to and glueing them in the proper locations. > > I'd say still go with a JS framework, just expect that you'll need to do a bit more work when it comes to layout and stuff. > > -- > Chris > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I have been doing some research into using a cross platform tool to develop an app for iPhone/Android/Blackberry. I landed on the two obvious choices Appcelerator Titanium and PhoneGap. All feature requirements for the project can be implemented by both platforms in one way or another. > > One thing that is relatively important is for the app to be reasonably responsiveness. PhoneGap wins in the crossplatform-ness vs Appcelerator BUT, when I tried some of the sample apps/demos of PhoneGap + JQM it was terribly slow in responsiveness (~700ms response time). I have read that JQM is horribly slow and that disabling transition effects helps, but is it enough? > > Should I even bother with JQuery Mobile or anyther JS Mobile framework (is Sensa Touch, XUI, etc.) or are they all slow? Can I get around this problem by writing my own UI code from scratch (which is more work I would like to avoid)? Or am I stuck with Appcelerator Titanium to get the responsiveness I want? > > Thanks, > > Marc Meszaros > > > > -- > Christopher Saunders > http://christophersaunders.ca/
We built a large iPad app with SenchaTouch and PhoneGap. The responsiveness does not match the one of a native app, but it is acceptable. -- *Martin Larochelle*, eng. Solutions Architect On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com>wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I have been doing some research into using a cross platform tool to > develop an app for iPhone/Android/Blackberry. I landed on the two obvious > choices Appcelerator Titanium and PhoneGap. All feature requirements for > the project can be implemented by both platforms in one way or another. > > One thing that is relatively important is for the app to be reasonably > responsiveness. PhoneGap wins in the crossplatform-ness vs Appcelerator > BUT, when I tried some of the sample apps/demos of PhoneGap + JQM it was > terribly slow in responsiveness (~700ms response time). I have read that > JQM is horribly slow and that disabling transition effects helps, but is it > enough? > > Should I even bother with JQuery Mobile or anyther JS Mobile framework (is > Sensa Touch, XUI, etc.) or are they all slow? Can I get around this problem > by writing my own UI code from scratch (which is more work I would like to > avoid)? Or am I stuck with Appcelerator Titanium to get the responsiveness > I want? > > Thanks, > > Marc Meszaros >
Sencha just released a dev preview of Sencha Touch 2 a couple of weeks ago. The main goal of the switch was to improve performance, especially responsiveness. The layout engine was completely re-written*, and is now much quicker. The live demos I've seen looked as responsive as native apps, but they were pure webapps (so the overhead added by PhoneGap could still be a factor). I would definitely consider Sencha Touch 2 if I started a hybrid mobile/web app today. It's a huge step up from something like jQM, and the docs have gotten much, much better over the past few months. Full disclosure: I don't work for Sencha or anything, but I did just go to their conference and might still be a little indoctrinated. I have used both jQM and Sencha extensively, and Sencha is miles ahead at this point. Happy coding! -- Dan Menard, Software Developer, Macadamian dan-menard.com * For those interested in the technical details of the upgrade: They switched from a JavaScript-based rendering engine to a CSS-based one. This is necessarily going to be much faster, simply because you're no longer waiting for the DOM to finish loading before starting the rendering cycle. Not to mention the fact that CSS is a more efficient way to lay out a view anyway :) On Nov 1, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Martin Larochelle wrote: > We built a large iPad app with SenchaTouch and PhoneGap. The responsiveness does not match the one of a native app, but it is acceptable. > > -- > Martin Larochelle, eng. > Solutions Architect > > > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I have been doing some research into using a cross platform tool to develop an app for iPhone/Android/Blackberry. I landed on the two obvious choices Appcelerator Titanium and PhoneGap. All feature requirements for the project can be implemented by both platforms in one way or another. > > One thing that is relatively important is for the app to be reasonably responsiveness. PhoneGap wins in the crossplatform-ness vs Appcelerator BUT, when I tried some of the sample apps/demos of PhoneGap + JQM it was terribly slow in responsiveness (~700ms response time). I have read that JQM is horribly slow and that disabling transition effects helps, but is it enough? > > Should I even bother with JQuery Mobile or anyther JS Mobile framework (is Sensa Touch, XUI, etc.) or are they all slow? Can I get around this problem by writing my own UI code from scratch (which is more work I would like to avoid)? Or am I stuck with Appcelerator Titanium to get the responsiveness I want? > > Thanks, > > Marc Meszaros >
First off, thanks to everyone for their feedback. I got the Sencha Touch v2 kitchensink sample working inside PhoneGap and the responsiveness is much better than it was with the jQuery Mobile + Phonegap sample project. The kitchensink sample inside PhoneGap is almost native webapp speeds for a good majority of the sample tasks I tested (there are only a few where the animations were a little choppy). I might try a few other libraries but my worries about poor JS performance in PhoneGap have been squashed. The jQuery Mobile experience left a bad taste in my mouth. Marc Meszaros On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Dan Menard <daniel.menard@macadamian.com>wrote: > Sencha just released a dev preview of Sencha Touch 2 a couple of weeks > ago. The main goal of the switch was to improve performance, especially > responsiveness. The layout engine was completely re-written*, and is now > much quicker. The live demos I've seen looked as responsive as native apps, > but they were pure webapps (so the overhead added by PhoneGap could still > be a factor). > > I would definitely consider Sencha Touch 2 if I started a hybrid > mobile/web app today. It's a huge step up from something like jQM, and the > docs have gotten much, much better over the past few months. > > Full disclosure: I don't work for Sencha or anything, but I did just go to > their conference and might still be a little indoctrinated. I have used > both jQM and Sencha extensively, and Sencha is miles ahead at this point. > < br> > Happy coding! > -- > *Dan Menard*, Software Developer, Macadamian > dan-menard.com > > > * For those interested in the technical details of the upgrade: They > switched from a JavaScript-based rendering engine to a CSS-based one. This > is necessarily going to be much faster, simply because you're no longer > waiting for the DOM to finish loading before starting the rendering cycle. > Not to mention the fact that CSS is a more efficient way to lay out a view > anyway :) > > On Nov 1, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Martin Larochelle wrote: > > We built a large iPad app with SenchaTouch and PhoneGap. The > responsiveness does not match the one of a native app, but it is acceptable. > > -- > *Martin Larochelle*, eng. > Solutions Architect > > > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Hey everyone, >> >> I have been doing some research into using a cross platform tool to >> develop an app for iPhone/Android/Blackberry. I landed on the two obvious >> choices Appcelerator Titanium and PhoneGap. All feature requirements for >> the project can be implemented by both platforms in one way or another. >> >> One thing that is relatively important is for the app to be reasonably >> responsiveness. PhoneGap wins in the crossplatform-ness vs Appcelerator >> BUT, when I tried some of the sample apps/demos of PhoneGap + JQM it was >> terribly slow in responsiveness (~700ms response time). I have read that >> JQM is horribly slow and that disabling transition effects helps, but is it >> enough? >> >> Should I even bother with JQuery Mobile or anyther JS Mobile framework >> (is Sensa Touch, XUI, etc.) or are they all slow? Can I get around this >> problem by writing my own UI code from scratch (which is more work I would >> like to avoid)? Or am I stuck with Appcelerator Titanium to get the >> responsiveness I want? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Marc Meszaros >> > > >
Do I smell a presentation coming out of your experiences? I'm sure lots of folks would be interested in the pros and cons of jQuery and Sencha. Simon Mac Donald http://hi.im/simonmacdonald On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com> wrote: > First off, thanks to everyone for their feedback. > > I got the Sencha Touch v2 kitchensink sample working inside PhoneGap and the > responsiveness is much better than it was with the jQuery Mobile + Phonegap > sample project. The kitchensink sample inside PhoneGap is almost native > webapp speeds for a good majority of the sample tasks I tested (there are > only a few where the animations were a little choppy). I might try a few > other libraries but my worries about poor JS performance in PhoneGap have > been squashed. The jQuery Mobile experience left a bad taste in my mouth. > > Marc Meszaros > > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Dan Menard <daniel.menard@macadamian.com> > wrote: >> >> Sencha just released a dev preview of Sencha Touch 2 a couple of weeks >> ago. The main goal of the switch was to improve performance, especially >> responsiveness. The layout engine was completely re-written*, and is now >> much quicker. The live demos I've seen looked as responsive as native apps, >> but they were pure webapps (so the overhead added by PhoneGap could still be >> a factor). >> I would definitely consider Sencha Touch 2 if I started a hybrid >> mobile/web app today. It's a huge step up from something like jQM, and the >> docs have gotten much, much better over the past few months. >> Full disclosure: I don't work for Sencha or anything, but I did just go to >> their conference and might still be a little indoctrinated. I have used both >> jQM and Sencha extensively, and Sencha is miles ahead at this point. >> < br> >> Happy coding! >> -- >> Dan Menard, Software Developer, Macadamian >> dan-menard.com >> >> * For those interested in the technical details of the upgrade: They >> switched from a JavaScript-based rendering engine to a CSS-based one. This >> is necessarily going to be much faster, simply because you're no longer >> waiting for the DOM to finish loading before starting the rendering cycle. >> Not to mention the fact that CSS is a more efficient way to lay out a view >> anyway :) >> On Nov 1, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Martin Larochelle wrote: >> >> We built a large iPad app with SenchaTouch and PhoneGap. The >> responsiveness does not match the one of a native app, but it is acceptable. >> -- >> Martin Larochelle, eng. >> Solutions Architect >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hey everyone, >>> I have been doing some research into using a cross platform tool to >>> develop an app for iPhone/Android/Blackberry. I landed on the two obvious >>> choices Appcelerator Titanium and PhoneGap. All feature requirements for the >>> project can be implemented by both platforms in one way or another. >>> One thing that is relatively important is for the app to be reasonably >>> responsiveness. PhoneGap wins in the crossplatform-ness vs Appcelerator BUT, >>> when I tried some of the sample apps/demos of PhoneGap + JQM it was terribly >>> slow in responsiveness (~700ms response time). I have read that JQM is >>> horribly slow and that disabling transition effects helps, but is it enough? >>> Should I even bother with JQuery Mobile or anyther JS Mobile framework >>> (is Sensa Touch, XUI, etc.) or are they all slow? Can I get around this >>> problem by writing my own UI code from scratch (which is more work I would >>> like to avoid)? Or am I stuck with Appcelerator Titanium to get the >>> responsiveness I want? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Marc Meszaros >> >> > >
Sounds like a good idea. Before I bash jQuery Mobile in a presentation though, I will try to actually compile it into a PhoneGap project myself instead of using a pre-built sample apk... just to make sure jQuery Mobile has horrible performance. Since it would be a short presentation I would probably pair it up with a second presentation on using maven as a dependency resolver and the google-api java client as an example for a dependency. I will start working on both presentations and see how far along my presentations are as we get closer to the next meeting before committing to present either of them (I don't want to present a short 5min presentation). Just a reminder to everyone on the mailing list, if anyone else has something they would like to present, let us know on the mailing list or send an email to the organizers (contact details at http://ottawaandroid.ca/contact-us/). Marc Meszaros On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Simon MacDonald <simon.macdonald@gmail.com>wrote: > Do I smell a presentation coming out of your experiences? I'm sure > lots of folks would be interested in the pros and cons of jQuery and > Sencha. > > Simon Mac Donald > http://hi.im/simonmacdonald > > > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com> > wrote: > > First off, thanks to everyone for their feedback. > > > > I got the Sencha Touch v2 kitchensink sample working inside PhoneGap and > the > > responsiveness is much better than it was with the jQuery Mobile + > Phonegap > > sample project. The kitchensink sample inside PhoneGap is almost native > > webapp speeds for a good majority of the sample tasks I tested (there are > > only a few where the animations were a little choppy). I might try a few > > other libraries but my worries about poor JS performance in PhoneGap have > > been squashed. The jQuery Mobile experience left a bad taste in my mouth. > > > > Marc Meszaros > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Dan Menard <daniel.menard@macadamian.com > > > > wrote: > >> > >> Sencha just released a dev preview of Sencha Touch 2 a couple of weeks > >> ago. The main goal of the switch was to improve performance, especially > >> responsiveness. The layout engine was completely re-written*, and is now > >> much quicker. The live demos I've seen looked as responsive as native > apps, > >> but they were pure webapps (so the overhead added by PhoneGap could > still be > >> a factor). > >> I would definitely consider Sencha Touch 2 if I started a hybrid > >> mobile/web app today. It's a huge step up from something like jQM, and > the > >> docs have gotten much, much better over the past few months. > >> Full disclosure: I don't work for Sencha or anything, but I did just go > to > >> their conference and might still be a little indoctrinated. I have used > both > >> jQM and Sencha extensively, and Sencha is miles ahead at this point. > >> < br> > >> Happy coding! > >> -- > >> Dan Menard, Software Developer, Macadamian > >> dan-menard.com > >> > >> * For those interested in the technical details of the upgrade: They > >> switched from a JavaScript-based rendering engine to a CSS-based one. > This > >> is necessarily going to be much faster, simply because you're no longer > >> waiting for the DOM to finish loading before starting the rendering > cycle. > >> Not to mention the fact that CSS is a more efficient way to lay out a > view > >> anyway :) > >> On Nov 1, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Martin Larochelle wrote: > >> > >> We built a large iPad app with SenchaTouch and PhoneGap. The > >> responsiveness does not match the one of a native app, but it is > acceptable. > >> -- > >> Martin Larochelle, eng. > >> Solutions Architect > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Marc Meszaros <marc.meszaros@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hey everyone, > >>> I have been doing some research into using a cross platform tool to > >>> develop an app for iPhone/Android/Blackberry. I landed on the two > obvious > >>> choices Appcelerator Titanium and PhoneGap. All feature requirements > for the > >>> project can be implemented by both platforms in one way or another. > >>> One thing that is relatively important is for the app to be reasonably > >>> responsiveness. PhoneGap wins in the crossplatform-ness vs > Appcelerator BUT, > >>> when I tried some of the sample apps/demos of PhoneGap + JQM it was > terribly > >>> slow in responsiveness (~700ms response time). I have read that JQM is > >>> horribly slow and that disabling transition effects helps, but is it > enough? > >>> Should I even bother with JQuery Mobile or anyther JS Mobile framework > >>> (is Sensa Touch, XUI, etc.) or are they all slow? Can I get around this > >>> problem by writing my own UI code from scratch (which is more work I > would > >>> like to avoid)? Or am I stuck with Appcelerator Titanium to get the > >>> responsiveness I want? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Marc Meszaros > >> > >> > > > > >