How do I choose a list in the archives browser? I can't see anything. Also, why is it librelist dot com and not dot org? -- Sincerely, Ram Rachum
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:30:17PM +0200, cool-RR wrote: > How do I choose a list in the archives browser? I can't see anything. Yeah, it's a little weird since it was a one day hack. I'd say wait a bit until we get a real archive setup going. > Also, why is it librelist dot com and not dot org? Crap! I honestly forgot to register those other domains. Just did it now, thanks for reminding me. -- Zed A. Shaw http://zedshaw.com/
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Zed A. Shaw <zedshaw@zedshaw.com> wrote: > On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:30:17PM +0200, cool-RR wrote: > > How do I choose a list in the archives browser? I can't see anything. > > Yeah, it's a little weird since it was a one day hack. I'd say wait a > bit until we get a real archive setup going. Okay, as long as it's gonna be done well eventually. On that subject: How interactive would that archive be? I would personally love it if it was possible to post and actually do all operations through it. For example I think the Google Groups web interface is pretty good. > Also, why is it librelist dot com and not dot org? > > Crap! I honestly forgot to register those other domains. Just did it > now, thanks for reminding me. > Registering them is one thing. But why is .com the official address? Why not .org? ------ I am considering using librelist for my project GarlicSim. I considered it before but dismissed the idea because this project is not very mature. But then I had a second round at seeing how much mailman, Google Groups and others suck, and I'm reconsidering it :) You think it's ready for use in projects? Some questions: Zed, I understand you are responsible for maintaining this. How long do you promise to keep maintaining? Because obviously librelist will be much smarter than existing solutions, but the top concern for me about it is the possibility that it will get neglected, which often happens in community projects. How easy will it be to post one-off questions? This is an issue that concerns me but I think I have the minority opinion on it, so I won't insist. But I personally prefer that it's easy for a person to just come to the list, ask a question, and leave, without much friction. Google Groups is good at this: You can post a message and then subscribe to e-mail updates only on that thread. P.S. I'm personally a fan of yours and I read most of your site :) I also took a peak at some of your codes and it looks pretty good. Ram.
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:33:22PM +0200, cool-RR wrote: > On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Zed A. Shaw <zedshaw@zedshaw.com> wrote: > On that subject: How interactive would that archive be? I would personally > love it if it was possible to post and actually do all operations through > it. For example I think the Google Groups web interface is pretty good. Nope, it won't be web interactive other than providing browsing and search. I've found that web interfaces seem to breed trolls and spammers more than actual email based mailing lists. > > Also, why is it librelist dot com and not dot org? > > > > Crap! I honestly forgot to register those other domains. Just did it > > now, thanks for reminding me. > > > > Registering them is one thing. But why is .com the official address? Why not > .org? Mostly laziness, but then I found that too many people type .com out of reflex, so I just registered it as a .com to save the trouble on my end. Really the TLD being used doesn't mean much about the way the operation is run (look at slashdot.org), and librelist isn't officially a non-profit yet (working on that), .com is more appropriate. > I am considering using librelist for my project GarlicSim. I considered it > before but dismissed the idea because this project is not very mature. But > then I had a second round at seeing how much mailman, Google Groups and > others suck, and I'm reconsidering it :) > > You think it's ready for use in projects? If you have a small number of members, say <500, and you don't have very high traffic, say <20 emails a day, then it should be just fine. That seems to be the peak right now, and the service runs on a fairly overloaded box without much load or problems. The only problems and outages come from me accidentally screwing up the code. You can also review all the code at http://support.librelist.com/ to make sure it fits what you want, is secure, etc. You could even run your own if you like. > Some questions: > > Zed, I understand you are responsible for maintaining this. How long do you > promise to keep maintaining? Because obviously librelist will be much > smarter than existing solutions, but the top concern for me about it is > the possibility that it will get neglected, which often happens in community > projects. I'll maintain it as long as I can, and hopefully if I can fund it with donations I'll be able to afford it. That being said, I've set it up so that, should it die or bitrot, anyone can set it up for themselves and switch off fairly easily. First, you can rsync down your entire archives for yourself as the original raw messages. I recommend you start doing this now just to be safe. Second, the code it totally open and available. Third, I backup the database, so if anything ever goes south or I stop using it, I can give out the user lists to project owners so they can bring it back. > How easy will it be to post one-off questions? This is an issue that > concerns me but I think I have the minority opinion on it, so I won't > insist. But I personally prefer that it's easy for a person to just come to > the list, ask a question, and leave, without much friction. Google Groups is > good at this: You can post a message and then subscribe to e-mail updates > only on that thread. It's ridiculously easy to subscribe and unsubscribe, so hopefully one off questions will be easy. Other than that, it's not really designed for this style of use yet, although I've toyed with a "subscribe to thread" only feature. Maybe in the future. > P.S. > I'm personally a fan of yours and I read most of your site :) I also took a > peak at some of your codes and it looks pretty good. Thanks. Let me know if you end up using it. -- Zed A. Shaw http://zedshaw.com/
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Zed A. Shaw <zedshaw@zedshaw.com> wrote: > > Mostly laziness, but then I found that too many people type .com out of > reflex, so I just registered it as a .com to save the trouble on my end. > Really the TLD being used doesn't mean much about the way the operation > is run (look at slashdot.org), and librelist isn't officially a > non-profit yet (working on that), .com is more appropriate. Zed, I'm not sure what you are saying here. Do you want to keep it dot com now, and then make it dot org later? In that case why not make the move as soon as possible to cause less confusion? I think the TLD does say much about the definition of the site. There are exceptions like slashdot.org, but they're still exceptions. Also, would it be a big hassle to have the dot com domain redirect to the dot org one? And the important question: Is librelist a 100% forever-not-for-profit project? > > I am considering using librelist for my project GarlicSim. I considered > it > > before but dismissed the idea because this project is not very mature. > But > > then I had a second round at seeing how much mailman, Google Groups and > > others suck, and I'm reconsidering it :) > > > > You think it's ready for use in projects? > > If you have a small number of members, say <500, and you don't have very > high traffic, say <20 emails a day, then it should be just fine. Good, my project's list would be within that bounds. > You can also review all the code at http://support.librelist.com/ to > make sure it fits what you want, is secure, etc. You could even run > your own if you like. I looked at some random files. I see the documentation is still scarce. I'm not the kind of guy who'll go over the code, comprehend it, and maybe run his own server... I'm the kind of guy who just wants it to work without thinking too much. > Some questions: > > > > Zed, I understand you are responsible for maintaining this. How long do > you > > promise to keep maintaining? Because obviously librelist will be much > > smarter than existing solutions, but the top concern for me about it is > > the possibility that it will get neglected, which often happens in > community > > projects. > > I'll maintain it as long as I can, and hopefully if I can fund it with > donations I'll be able to afford it. > > That being said, I've set it up so that, should it die or bitrot, anyone > can set it up for themselves and switch off fairly easily. First, you > can rsync down your entire archives for yourself as the original raw > messages. I recommend you start doing this now just to be safe. > Second, the code it totally open and available. Third, I backup the > database, so if anything ever goes south or I stop using it, I can give > out the user lists to project owners so they can bring it back. Okay, then I guess the worst case scenario isn't that bad, so I'm not taking a lot of risk. > > How easy will it be to post one-off questions? This is an issue that > > concerns me but I think I have the minority opinion on it, so I won't > > insist. But I personally prefer that it's easy for a person to just come > to > > the list, ask a question, and leave, without much friction. Google Groups > is > > good at this: You can post a message and then subscribe to e-mail updates > > only on that thread. > > It's ridiculously easy to subscribe and unsubscribe, so hopefully one > off questions will be easy. Other than that, it's not really designed > for this style of use yet, although I've toyed with a "subscribe to > thread" only feature. Maybe in the future. Okay, then at least I have +1'ed this issue. > > P.S. > > I'm personally a fan of yours and I read most of your site :) I also took > a > > peak at some of your codes and it looks pretty good. > > Thanks. Let me know if you end up using it. > > So if the answer to the non-profit question is yes, I guess I'm in. And about the google mail redirection: It just so happens that's what I'm using. cool-rr@cool-rr.com goes to ram.rachum@gmail.com, and I operate from Gmail even though the mail looks like it was sent from cool-rr@cool-rr.com. So I guess I set up the MX thing correctly, because I'm seeing no problems. Ram.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 02:59:55AM +0200, cool-RR wrote: > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Zed A. Shaw <zedshaw@zedshaw.com> wrote: > > > > Mostly laziness, but then I found that too many people type .com out of > > reflex, so I just registered it as a .com to save the trouble on my end. > > Really the TLD being used doesn't mean much about the way the operation > > is run (look at slashdot.org), and librelist isn't officially a > > non-profit yet (working on that), .com is more appropriate. > > > Zed, I'm not sure what you are saying here. Do you want to keep it dot com > now, and then make it dot org later? In that case why not make the move as > soon as possible to cause less confusion? > > I think the TLD does say much about the definition of the site. There are > exceptions like slashdot.org, but they're still exceptions. As I said before, .org is a pain in the ass on many levels. I'd say, if the TLD matters so much that you find it as an indicator of trustworthiness then consider using another service. I may switch it, but I'm more inclined to just let people use all three and leave it at that. So, if .org is important, then wait until tomorrow and .org, .net, and .com will all work and you can put librelist.org on your site. > Also, would it be a big hassle to have the dot com domain redirect to the > dot org one? It's email. There is no redirect. > And the important question: Is librelist a 100% forever-not-for-profit > project? You know my history, and if I say something is free, then it stays free. It's free, *and* I've set it up so that you don't have to trust that I'll keep it free. In fact, having rsync archives, the full code to the service, and wiki/bugs/source all in a distributed forkable RCS means that I couldn't hijack your mailing list if I wanted to. The second I do, you just tell everyone to go to your server and that's it. That's done on purpose to keep myself and others honest. If forking your mailing list is so easy, then there's no incentive to screw you over by suddenly charging for it. Which is much more than you get from any other service out there. -- Zed A. Shaw http://zedshaw.com/
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:10 AM, Zed A. Shaw <zedshaw@zedshaw.com> wrote: > > So, if .org is important, then wait until tomorrow and .org, .net, > and .com will all work and you can put librelist.org on your site. > > > Also, would it be a big hassle to have the dot com domain redirect to the > > dot org one? > > It's email. There is no redirect. > > > And the important question: Is librelist a 100% forever-not-for-profit > > project? > > You know my history, and if I say something is free, then it stays free. > It's free, *and* I've set it up so that you don't have to trust that > I'll keep it free. > > In fact, having rsync archives, the full code to the service, and > wiki/bugs/source all in a distributed forkable RCS means that I couldn't > hijack your mailing list if I wanted to. The second I do, you just tell > everyone to go to your server and that's it. > > That's done on purpose to keep myself and others honest. If forking > your mailing list is so easy, then there's no incentive to screw you > over by suddenly charging for it. Which is much more than you get from > any other service out there. > > -- > Zed A. Shaw > http://zedshaw.com/ > Sounds great, I'm in then. Question: I understand the archive browser is problematic yet (Not being able to choose a list.) But is there a URL I can go to manually to see the archive of a certain list? Ram.
Also, what is this? "You are using google to host a domain that is not google.com. Don’t do this. Send email from a real domain and server that matches." Ram. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:33 PM, cool-RR <cool-rr@cool-rr.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Zed A. Shaw <zedshaw@zedshaw.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:30:17PM +0200, cool-RR wrote: >> > How do I choose a list in the archives browser? I can't see anything. >> >> Yeah, it's a little weird since it was a one day hack. I'd say wait a >> bit until we get a real archive setup going. > > > Okay, as long as it's gonna be done well eventually. > > On that subject: How interactive would that archive be? I would personally > love it if it was possible to post and actually do all operations through > it. For example I think the Google Groups web interface is pretty good. > > > Also, why is it librelist dot com and not dot org? >> >> Crap! I honestly forgot to register those other domains. Just did it >> now, thanks for reminding me. >> > > Registering them is one thing. But why is .com the official address? Why > not .org? > > ------ > > I am considering using librelist for my project GarlicSim. I considered it > before but dismissed the idea because this project is not very mature. But > then I had a second round at seeing how much mailman, Google Groups and > others suck, and I'm reconsidering it :) > > You think it's ready for use in projects? > > > > Some questions: > > Zed, I understand you are responsible for maintaining this. How long do you > promise to keep maintaining? Because obviously librelist will be much > smarter than existing solutions, but the top concern for me about it is > the possibility that it will get neglected, which often happens in community > projects. > > How easy will it be to post one-off questions? This is an issue that > concerns me but I think I have the minority opinion on it, so I won't > insist. But I personally prefer that it's easy for a person to just come to > the list, ask a question, and leave, without much friction. Google Groups is > good at this: You can post a message and then subscribe to e-mail updates > only on that thread. > > P.S. > I'm personally a fan of yours and I read most of your site :) I also took a > peak at some of your codes and it looks pretty good. > > Ram. > -- Sincerely, Ram Rachum
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:35:49AM +0200, cool-RR wrote: > Also, what is this? > "You are using google to host a domain that is not google.com. Don’t do > this. Send email from a real domain and server that matches." There's some kind of weird google host email setup people use that has their email go to gmail, but is from say zed@myhost.com rather than zed@gmail.com. Normally this is alright, if they setup the MX records correctly. But, there's some people who don't set it up right, so email can be sent from gmail, but when librelist replies it goes nowhere because the DNS for myhost.com is wrong. As soon as I can figure out how to detect this I'll be able to find out how to compensate for it. Until then, if I can't send an email to you@you.com without special headers and crap then you can't use librelist. -- Zed A. Shaw http://zedshaw.com/